Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi everyone.It's awesome to see how many people 'adore' their turtles.I know I do.Here's my story, I purchased a box turtle from a pet shop about 8 months ago. I've always loved them, and wanted a new addition to the family. I was nieve, and trusted in the staff to be honest with me about my questions. I picked one out, and fell in love instantly! I was told it was a girl, captive bred, and approx 6months to a year old. I asked many other questions reguarding her care and then brought my little girl home. Being as it was summertime, I had built an elaborate outdoor enclosure for her, and she seemed to adjust just fine. I live in colorado, and our first snow came in september this year. I was worried it was TOO cold for her so I moved her inside. Not informed, and not aware of the whole hibernation thing she eventually stopped eating, and became sluggish. Worried I took her to my vet, and was absolutly taken back when he informed me she, was a he, approximatley 8-10 years old,and definatley wild caught. The anger towards the pet trade consumed me and all I could do was cry. She has since recovered, but I have not, I have devoted all of my spare time to learning more about this,and on a good note have since ADOPTED another guy,an eastern box turtle I have named Diego. He was adopted from a reptile rescue, and had been rescued from a wild fire. He has many burn scars on his shell, but is just fine and has since become the light of my life!

Uh....do you still have the first turtle?

I don't know how the vet could confirm the
turtle was wild caught. If the turtle has
a lot of damage to the shell its probably
a safe bet, otherwize there is no way to tell
for certain.

I know of at least one farm in Oklahoma where
the couple raises captive bred boxies and sells
them to pet stores.

Yes I still have the first turtle. Since I thought she was a girl we called her dee, and the name has stuck. Yes "he" had definate marks on his shell, and was in no way a "youngin." Are you against selling wild caught turtles?

I would surmise that anyone who gives a hoot about turtles (or wildlife in general) is adamantly against the sale of wild caught animals.
To go along with the post below, additional non-natural annual losses of as little as 3-4% of adults are enough to push a population into extinction. Turtles have late-onset maturity, an incredibly high adult annual survivorship (>0.98), are exceptionally long-lived, and highly fecund (owing to the extremely low hatchling/juvenile annual survivorship) - all of this adds up to the almost incomprehensible importance of a single adult in a population. Given that road mortality is a novel threat and is likely taking out greater than four percent of adults in populations anywhere near a road, any excess collection is that much more catastrophic.
Therefore, yeah, in short, I at least am against the collection and subsequent sale of wild turtles. It is bloody ridiculous... Sometimes I need to vent as well

The vast majority of adult turtles sold in pet stores are wild caught. This is especially true of box turtles. It takes several years to for a turtle to be over 4 inches in shell size and that's too much time to enable the selling of turtles for the cheap prices that stores carry them at.

Studies have found that box turtles (as well as some other types) cannot sustain their wild populations when a moderate number of them are collected for the pet trade.

This, combined with the fact that some wild caught turtles never adjust to captivity and a large number of people don't do their homework in regards to the care and commitment of owning box turtles, makes a strong arguement against wild collecting of turtles. Especially since there are so many unwanted box turtles available from places that adopt them out.

Tim

Exactly!Like I've told a couple of other people responding to my post I was so devistated learning that the turtles in pet shops,etc,could be 5-10-15 years old! Snatched out of their homes, and thrown into a tiny tank for all the world to stare at! Not to mention how they are kept before they reach the pet shop.I have been working with a reptile rescue that has been trying to help ban the sale of these guys in the pet trade for years. I am on board and mad! For now I put up fliers everywhere begging people that want a reptile to ADOPT from a reptile rescue! It is genrally free,you can feel good knowing that you are saving an animal that noone else wanted!I started with my little wildfire guy, and plan to foster and adopt many more!

I agree with everything you say about being aginst the practice of WC, except for one thing: adopting isn't free! Far from it. I've been doing some intense research for close to 5 months and the avarage "adoption fee" for an adult box turtle is about $65. (and that's just the start. Concientious husbandry techniques state that you should immeidately take a box turtle to a vet to be examined. As we all know, that ain't cheap! All told, with shipping, "adoption fees" and a vet visit, and you're looking at upwards of $150 per animal)

I myself am looking to adopt 6 adults this spring, and am having a heck of a time finding adoption agencies around the country, let alone in the Bay Area where I live.

>> I was told it was a girl, captive bred, and approx 6months to a year old.

That alone should have thrown up many red flags. there is no way a 1 year old box turtle would be of legal size to be sold in a pet store. For it to have been captive bred and raised to the legal 4" inch size, the turtle would have had to be at least 5-8 years old depending on how power fed/rich the diet it was fed in captivity since it was hatched. In the wild, you can probably expect a turtle to be around 10-15 years old to be just reaching the 4 inch mark....after that it's hard to judge age. you can make some educated guesses based on growth rings but there is a large margin of error on figuring the age that way.

Even breeders who try to power feed their babies to reach the legal size for selling can't really do it in a short enough time to still be able to compete with those who sell wild caught animals to the petstores. Turtles will become deformed in the shell if they are fed a too rich of a diet in order to get them to grow as fast as possible in as little time as possible... the shell and body growth can be very uneven and noticeable. Such damage is easy to spot.... so a nicely formed looking shell takes longer to achieve than a deformed one...and the profit is in the nicer animals than deformed..it's in the best interest of the breeder to take the extra time to produce a nicer animal.

A person selling a captive bred box turtle to a petstore would not sell it cheap enough to make it worth the petstores' time to buy and resell it..the price would be too steep for the breeder to recover enough money to make a profit off the animal and then for the pet store to mark it up to make their profit. Therefore the petstores buy cheap wild caughts wholesale and sell them dirt cheap and still make a good profit.
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PHWyvern

Thank you so much for your reply! Like I said,I didn't know much about turtles and was heartbroken in learning that they are generally wild caught. The fact that they will do that to "plump" them up faster makes me ill. On a good note for the past 7 months I have done nothing but read books about turtles,talk on line about them, and whatever else I can to be more aware! I have been working with a reptile rescue, which in my opinion is where ALL people should get their turtles from! Why pay money for something that you can adopt for FREE and know that you are giving an unwanted animal a good home.I know now that I have found my calling,and doing my part to "someday" ban the sale of turtles,iguanas,and many other reptiles and animals in the pet trade.It may be a losing battle, but least I can say I tried. By the way, my two little "boys" are doing great! Thanks again for the info.

I agree pet stores should not be allowed to sell any reptiles, just totally domesticated animals like rabbits, guinea pigs, hamsters, etc. If you see an adult turtle in a pet store it is 100% wild caught. Think about in order to raise a captive to adulthood it will cost a good amount of money. To turn around and sell it for 50-60 bucks from a business standpoint makes no sense, and is unrealistic. I would love to see a law that bans pet stores from selling reptiles. I am very thankful that here in new jersey it is illegal to sell turtles in pet stores, I wish it were the same everywhere.

Wow! New Jersey is on board.I wish colorado was! Can't think of anything crueler than snatching a reptile from it's home,especially when it's been there for years and putting them into the pet trade for nothing but makin a buck!They dont care about these guys! My motto is "Ban the pet shop for today,ADOPT your reptile right away.There are too many reptile sanctuarys out there working off donations to get your pet from(most always for free)to give the pet trade any more money!Thanx4yourpost