Reptile & Amphibian Forums

can anyone tell me any different types of variations of creamsicles u can get? besides , zig zags, motleys, stripeds and stuff ilke that that the cornsake contribute. is there any different morphs that a greatplains can contribute into the mix?

i know a non amel/regular pair would be rootbeer corns or whatever u watna call em . but what if its an albino greatplains and a albino corn there differnt than amelanistic right? , what would they look like ? any different than the typical creamsicle?
can anyone post any pics of what these kool little guys look like .
i just started warming up a trio that i have
male albino great plains ratsanke
female albino cornsnake
female greatplains ratsnake

would i get creamsicles this years litter? or would i have to breed the babies back to each other for them not to be regulars or rootbeers or water ever 2 regulars bred trogether would be called .

They would be concidered rootbeers. Unless the two types of amelanism are on the same locus.... then they would be creams. Good question.
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.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
.1 MO Locale Black Ratsnake "Molly" (Flogging Molly)

"You saved my life! I'm gonna get you so many lizards!"

You've named the patterns, so I think you're looking for color variations in creamsicles.

First, just "straight" creamsicles can vary. There's red creams and yellow creams, in addition to the traditional faded orange coloration. Corn snake-influenced morphs occur too, like reverse Okeetee creams.

As far as color morphs, I've produced hypo, anery and snows from cream to het breedings. As the other person who posted said, het creams are referred to as "rootbeers."

The gene for amel in Great Plains Ratsnakes and in corns is compatible. There are "pure" amel GPRs out there as well.

By breeding your amel GPR to your amel corn, you'd get 100% creamsicles. If your female GPR isn't het for anything, then you'd get 100% het for amel GPR babies - which would not be creamsicles, if the GPRs you have are "pure".

Here are a couple of creamsicle snows that I hatched out last Summer. I call them "snowcones."

Tim

Third Eye

I thought if you bred an amel emoryi to amel corn you get all norm looking het for both forms of amel. Didn't think the two forms of amel where compatible. I asked a question about this a few weeks ago here and on the rat forum. The only repsonses I got where that know one knows of a cream produced using the emoryi amel instead of the corn amel, or combining the two amels and then breeding the offspring.

You're right!

Creamsicles originate from an amel corn bred to a normal Emory and then the offspring being bred togather - but I'm sure you're aware of that.

I suppose that since there's incompatible strains of amel boas and black rat snakes, that the Emory and corn amel genes may be incompatible as well.

I assumed that someone had done an amel Emory to amel corn breeding, but I stand corrected, because apparently it hasn't happened yet (at least no one has admitting to it so far on the forums as far as I can see). I suppose Emory's are still too high in value to dillute the pure amel form with corns.

I'd like to know how that breeding turns out, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if it resulted in all amel offspring.

Tim

Third Eye

this would be my beautiful male great plains , hes going to cross the the female albino(or amelanistic ,whatever it is) cornsnake to make the creamsicles and hes going to produce me some hets with my female regular greatplains

and this would be my female albino ( or amel) cornsnake that the male alb GPR will pump up in a few weeks hopefully

so are these two compatible to produce creamsicles this generation ?
and my greatplains will be 100% hets right?

The strain of amelanism in pure emoryi is NOT compatible to the strain of amelanism in pure corns. If you breed your pure male amel emoryi to your pure amel corn, you will still get rootbeer corns that are NOT amelanistic. When you breed the babies together, you will theoretically get two types of "creamsickles". One variant expressing the emorys strain of amelanism, and one variant expressing the corn strain of amelanism (typical creamsickles). Not sure what the emoryi amel based creams would look like though. A LOT of effort is being put into keeping the amel emorys pure. To truly know what the emoryi strain of amelanism would look like in a creamsickle, it would probably be best to breed an amel emoryi to a normal corn not het for amel. The babies would be normals, but ONLY carry the emoryi strain of amelanism that would be expressed when bred to each other.

>>The strain of amelanism in pure emoryi is NOT compatible to the strain of amelanism in pure corns. If you breed your pure male amel emoryi to your pure amel corn, you will still get rootbeer corns that are NOT amelanistic. When you breed the babies together, you will theoretically get two types of "creamsickles". One variant expressing the emorys strain of amelanism, and one variant expressing the corn strain of amelanism (typical creamsickles). Not sure what the emoryi amel based creams would look like though. A LOT of effort is being put into keeping the amel emorys pure. To truly know what the emoryi strain of amelanism would look like in a creamsickle, it would probably be best to breed an amel emoryi to a normal corn not het for amel. The babies would be normals, but ONLY carry the emoryi strain of amelanism that would be expressed when bred to each other.

"One variant expressing the emorys strain of amelanism, and one variant expressing the corn strain of amelanism (typical creamsickles). Not sure what the emoryi amel based creams would look like though"
I spoke to Don S. about this subject and from what I understood Don to say was you could tell the creams with emoryi amelanism from the creams with corn amelanism. They looked too similar to distinguish.
Don if you read this make sure to correct me if I am wrong.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

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>>I spoke to Don S. about this subject and from what I understood Don to say was you "could" tell the creams with emoryi amelanism from the creams with corn amelanism. They looked too similar to distinguish.
>>Don if you read this make sure to correct me if I am wrong.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

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I'm sure you got the "scoop" correctly from Don.....and that you understood it correctly as well.......it will also look identicle to the "amel" from "guttata"(not the snake itself), as white is just that,..white. The only difference in this amelanism, as you well know, is the allele for this is at a different location....I see huge problems down the way, as more of these are produced, not initially, but inevitably people will not keep record,and say, "well, so and so told me that they got it from????????..........this project will more than likely get a "wrench" thrown into it in fairly short order.....Fortunately, there will be some breeders that will always keep things just as they are, and can be trusted to have EXACTLY what they say they have, and keep detailed records......I only wish more breeders did this............take care Jimmy,.......................Doug
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Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!

ahh , somebody with a good point,
yes im going to keep my amel pure and make a note of what people are buying becuase yes you are right that would put a dilema in the trade for these guys.

i would like to find out were my guy origonated from and what type of amelanistic he is
can any one help?

and also mine and others posts on the "cornsnake" about "pure amelanistic Great Plains Ratsnake".....this will hopefully explain a little to you on this, I think you are mistaking the "creamsicle" amelanism, which is from the cornsnake(guttata)the new "amel" gene in that "emoryi" is .TOTALLY INCOMPATIBLE!! with it....................................................Doug
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Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!

Kevin,....You hit this right on the head!!.....I read ALL the posts in the whole forum about this (and ratsnake forum) to see all that was said. I'm sure from reading all these, that it is indeed incompatible with the "amel corn" gene. And like we both know, only for the simple reason that the allele is at a different location from the other. Also, I'm sure it will look identicle. I talk to people all the time about keeping strains as "pure" as humanly possible, and as you well know, the latest fad seems to be to mix anything and everything to make "mutt" snakes that look different....Younger people that are newer to the hobby seem to be more into this than the "old-timers" like me that try to perpetuate, and/or refine strains keeping bloodlines as pure as poss. These are the types that will throw a big "wrench" into the gears of this project as well!!. This will happen in short order no doubt...It's surprising how many people breed snakes that know very little(if anything) about genetics,taxonomy,and so on. Just reading a few quick posts here on the forum is proof of this!!LOL.Seems like very few people really want to understand any basic genetics,it's pretty sad, they are just "hell-bent" on producing animals,that's all....Fortunately, there are still enough breeders out there with enough knowledge that you know it truly is EXACTLY what they say it is. This is the same problem(only more so) that is encountered in the Milksnakes that I'm deeply involved with..Any way, I figured you were a good candidate for sharing this with,.......best regards,............................Doug
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Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!