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what would this be ?

>>what would this be ?
>>

It definitely looks like an amel or albino Great plains rat snake.
And yes it can be pure GPR and amelanistic.
GPR's carry a separate amelanism from corns.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

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so how many of these bad boys do u think are floatin around in the US?
i know there was only 3 caught in the wild , 2 from kansas and 1 from south texas.i cant find any pictures or anything about albino/amel GPR's .

>>so how many of these bad boys do u think are floatin around in the US?
>>i know there was only 3 caught in the wild , 2 from kansas and 1 from south texas.i cant find any pictures or anything about albino/amel GPR's .

They are around.
I will be producing some in '08
my het amel emoryis will be ready to breed then.

-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

Amel GPR have been around for a few years.

Susan from Hardy Reptiles had some for sale last year...I believe around $300 a piece.

I've found hundreds of GPR in Kansas and no amels

But I did breed my wild caught GPR to some Creamsicles

Kerby...
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Lonesome Valley Reptiles
www.lonesomevalleyreptiles.com
Specializing In California Kingsnakes

i got an adult male amel GPR for 50$
i will be breeding him to a regular GPR this year, lets hope for the best.
how many eggs do u usualy get out of them

where did you read about the south Texas amel? As far as I know this would be "allegedly" the first amel meahllmorum that has been caught. Although others may have caught them but have kept it on the down low.

im not sure im gonna try n find the page again and post it

Jimmy,.....please explain,....are you saying that the "amel" gene for "emoryi" is located on a different allele, and is incompatible with the "amel" gene of the "guttata"?........Doug
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Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!

i belive its incompatible the first generation , you have to breed the normal babies you get outa them back to back but u get 2 different creamsicle variations .

>>Jimmy,.....please explain,....are you saying that the "amel" gene for "emoryi" is located on a different allele, and is incompatible with the "amel" gene of the "guttata"?........Doug
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I hope I am getting this right but as far as I have gathered they are incompatable.
If you breed an amel emoryi (no guttatus) to an amel corn (no emoryi) you will get normals (rootbeers).
Now the hets these rootbeers carry have me a little confused.
I would assume (and we know what a problem this can be...lol)
that these rootbeers would all be het E-amel het G-amel.
E for emoryi amel
G for guttatus amel
I am just baseing this on a simple comparrison.
Since they do not occupy the same allele I would think it would almost work the same as pairing an amel with a hypo.
You get all normals het amel het hypo.
Of course I could just be blowing smoke out my &$$ but that is how I understand it.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE if someonw can come on here and either tell me I am right or full of "it", either would be greatly appreciated.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

after askin a dozen peopl in the last week out of my own curiosity i tihnk your right on that one . im wondering what the emory amel creamsicles will look like

Yes, the two forms of amel are incompatible and located on different allels. When you breed pure amel emoryi to pure amel corn you get all normal looking offspring het for both forms of amel. This way when you breed the offspring there really is no way of telling wich amels are of emoryi influence or corn influence unless you bred them back to amel corn or emoryi to see what you get. I believe there is also a "new" strain of amel in the emoryis as well that is not compatible with the original emoryi amel.

This stuff is waaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy crazier than I ever imagined. Turns out that this has been an enlightening post, even for those who have been working with corns and creams for awhile.

I guess it goes to show that there's always new things to be learned.

Tim

yes, well they say u learn somethin new evryday .
thank you for all who have cleared this topic up
much appreciated, ill keep yous posted on how thses little buggers turn out

but please make sure you represent these animals correctly. I know of one individual who got burnt buying a pure amel emoryi only to find out it had corn blood in it. Basically it was a creamsickle line bred back to emoryi to enhance the emoryi characteristics.

>>but please make sure you represent these animals correctly. I know of one individual who got burnt buying a pure amel emoryi only to find out it had corn blood in it. Basically it was a creamsickle line bred back to emoryi to enhance the emoryi characteristics.

I really think this is something that needs to be expressed as often as possible.
I work with emoryi/corn mixes, pure corns, bairds rat snakes and next season emoryis.
It can't be stressed enough to always represent everything honestly and completely.
There is the possibility that people who buy animals from a breeder may missrepresent them but unfortunately there isn't anything we can do about that (directly)..And this is one of the strongest arguments against "hybrids".
I do feel that with continued education and with the higher demand for some of the mixes such as creamsicles that people will be more honest simply because there will be nothing to gain by lying.
A lot of people do not really care for some of the "morph" names such as rootbeer and creamsicle but I think we need these names to make the mix immediately known.
Even if a new person in the hobby has no idea what a rootbeer or creamsicle is, if they buy an animal labled as such there will be no doubt once they delve a little deeper into the hobby and learn what those names mean.
That's what happened to me when I first got back into corn snakes. I got what I thought was an amelanistic corn snake but she was actually a creamsicle.
sorry to ramble
always represent every snake truthfully and completely!!!!
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

ohh no doubt, def.
i always usualy post picturesd of there parents and or background information, nothings worse gettin stuff labeled wrong by some money hungry jerkoff thats more interested in money rather than keeping animals true and being an honest dealer in the trade.
i will put pictures of the parents of the offspring and what the offspring will look like bred together and a little info about the corns becuase ive noticed most people just think of creamsicles as just a morph or color variation with corns and little do they know its a mix between an emory and a corn . i do this for my everglades ratsnakes that i will be pairing up again this year becuase pure everglades are less comon nowdays too .and these pics highly assure people and keep things straight.

and whoever sold someone a "amelanistic emory" that was washed down with corn is a complete douchebagg . these are the people that will sell u might infested snakes or animals with all kindsa mesed up shlt wrong with them . now if the guy himself didnt even know thats one thing but if not thats pretty messed up .
once again like i said , somepoeple r just too worried about that money in there pockets . i hoped nobody bred that mut Amel GPR to another one , that would real mess evrything up

im currently looking at your page, (nice collection) and im wondering the blood of some of your snakes out of curiousity .
what is yoda and oppollo?
and your creamsicles ?
is that a creamsicle and a amelanistic ?
or are they both creamsicles?
and is Shana the hypo GPR?
why dont u breed him/her with a regular to get the hets and worth with hypo's?
ide die to have some of them

>>im currently looking at your page, (nice collection) and im wondering the blood of some of your snakes out of curiousity .
>>what is yoda and oppollo?
>>and your creamsicles ?
>>is that a creamsicle and a amelanistic ?
>>or are they both creamsicles?
>> and is Shana the hypo GPR?
>>why dont u breed him/her with a regular to get the hets and worth with hypo's?
>>ide die to have some of them

Let me see if I can answer these questions..
Yoda is a creamsicle but what you would call a "high-corn" creamsicle. She is probably 75% guttatus/25% emoryi

Just for clarification..great plains rat snake=pantherophis
emoryi
I'm not really going to delve into intermontana or meahllmorun at this time. For now I will just lump them all under emoryi..not really a good thing to do but there really hasn't been a lot done to differenciate the three especially when combined with guttatus.

Your question about my creamsicles followed by "is that a creamsicle and a amelanistic"
creamsicles are brought about by breeding an emoryi rat snake to an amelanistic corn and then breeding the offspring back together again or breeding the offspring back to the amel corn.
When you breed an emoryi to an amelanistic corn you get normals 50% corn/50% emoryi that are het for amelanism.
Basically once you introduce the emoryi in with the corn you now have what would be rootbeers (normals) het creamsicle(amel).
rootbeer denotes emoryi/corn crosses expressing the wild type or "normal" appearance.
Creamsicle denotes emoryi/corn crosses expressing amelanism.
so when you breed these rootbeers het creamsicle to each other you get normals (rootbeers) and amels (creamsicles).
Because you bred 50/50 to 50/50 you would still have animals that are 50% corn/50%emoryi.
If you breed the offspring back to the amel corn you would get
approximately half normals (rootbeers) and half amels (creamsicles) but these would be 62.5% guttatus/37.5% emoryi.

Apollo is a stripe creamsicle, so this basically involved the corn stripe gene and the corn amelanistic gene mixed with emoryi.
I do not know the exact breeding trials done to get Apollo and Stripe but I think it was pretty basic..emoryi to amel stripe corn...and worked from there.

Cinnamons (shana is a cinnamon) are the result of breeding an emoryi to a hypomelanistic corn and then breeding those offspring together or breeding the offspring back to the hypo corn.
Basically a cinnamon is an emoryi/corn cross expressing hypomelanism.
I actually believe that in the cases of Shana and Toast they were the result of breeding the het hypo offspring back to the hypo corn meaning they are only 37.5% emoryi.

Now I have a nice Rootbeer het hypo ( he is actually 50% guttatus/50% meahllmorun) that I will be breeding to Shana, this season hoping to introduce more emoryi, or more specifically meahllmorun, back into my cinnamons.

beyond that I have 2 male emoryis het albino
and two female emoryis het albino that I will be breeding together in '08 to produce emoryis obviously and albino emoryis.
I like to use albino with emoryis just to keep this from getting confused with corn amelanism.

I also have a male emoryi possibly het albino that I will probably breed with one of my creamsicle girls to introduce more emoryi into my cream lines as well.

I hope what I have written answers your questions and makes some kind of sense...I think I lost myself along the way...been a little under the weather the last couple of days and I'm medicated...LOL
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

when I said 62.5%/37.5% I was wrong, of course.
50% corn/50% emoryi back to 100% corn would be 75% corn/ 25% emoryi now wouldn't it
>>
>>
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

Yeah,...that's very possible, heck, there are many genes in todays morphs that look similar, or identicle and are totally incompatible.....A and B anerythrism, "Sharp strain" amel Colombian Boa gene, and so on. I just wasn't aware of this, as I,ve been out of the "corn thing" for a while and haven't been up to date on the very latest happenings..........what's cool about it, is the fact that it is strictly unique to "emoryi", with zero "corn" influence if this is indeed the case!....that's cool stuff!!..........................................Doug
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Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!

You would get all normals het for both forms of incompatible amelanism. The real problem would be differentiated your "creamsickles" as to which is carrying what form of amelanism. I assume there would be some color variations, but how much or how distinct is the question. Part of the lack of answers may be the fact most breeders of pure amel emoryi are NOT using them in making different corn morphs to keep integrity and value up as it should be. Might see more of these types of mixes as the price of pure amel emoryi drops. Same with chocholates, etc. I know of one breeder who has produced a double het. chocholate amel emoryi (pure emoryi) from Kansas stock.

So, out of curiosity, has anyone bred the emoryi amel into a corn to see if the emoryi amel has a different look than the original corn amel?
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.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
.1 MO Locale Black Ratsnake "Molly" (Flogging Molly)

"You saved my life! I'm gonna get you so many lizards!"

supposevly somebody did but i cant find any info or pictures on it . i guess in a few years ill find out .people say you wont be able to tell the wich is the emory phase amel and wich is the corn phase emel but i think i would have an idea when i see them