Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have to give my little Elvira shots of Amakacin every three days and today was my first dose. Has anyone else had to do this? Am I the only wuss out there. I cant stand watching her get stuck, and its harder to do it! I seriously probably took like a half hour to get it done.
I hate seeing it and I hate holding her down while its getting done. I dont like to force her to do anything, cause I feel like she will hate me if I am doing this. And I know it has to be done.

Am I a freak? Am I a wuss?

Yes & yes...haha
think of it this way, if she is sick you need to do it, not like your do'n it to be mean, but
if you got a needle in me for a 1/2 hour it better have some ink in it.....

haha, true.

No really it took me a half hour just to do the sticking! Once it was in it only lasted a couple seconds.

What was the Amakacin perscribed for? This is a very delicate drug that has been known to cause kidney disease in reptiles and premature death from kidney failure. Though the effects may not be immediate, it has shortened the life of many reptiles. Often times babies treated with it don't live past 5. I had a boa die from an injection given to her by a veterinarian who was the reptile vet of a well known zoo (name withheld because of public forum and TOS).

I am at Cornell University right now, and though not studying veterinary medicine, the vet school here is the best in the country and I have spoken to many students all who warn against the drug if possible.

Sometimes there is no alternative, and you have to hope for the best. If it is properly dosed risk decreases drastically, but do be careful.

It was perscribed for the RI my blood currently has. Someone mentioned another drug that they give them for RI but I have forgot the name of that one. I dont know what else to do. The vet perscribed it, and i figured they know more than me. It was two different vets in the same clinic and they talked about it for like 20 minute while I sat there and listened to the mumbled jargon. lol

Well I honestly don't know what to tell you. I guess you just have to trust the vet. I know if I ever need to have a snake examined again and Amakacin comes up for treatment I will ask for an alternative. My boa was also perscribed it for an RI.

Being concerned with the medication is a good thing. I have used Amikacin for years as well as Fortaz with great results, but you have to know how to use it and the vet has to know how to prescribe it. I prefer to soak the animals to hydrate them a bit and loosen the skin before injection. The shot "burns" so the animals do not like it at all. Since most of my amikacin in the past was mixed with a B-complex to stimulate appetite, it was refrigerated to preserve it longer. This reduced the burning apparently since room temp Amikacin ellicits more "kick" from the animals. Also, kick up the temps slightly to improve the immune system and allow faster absorption of the drug.

Overdosing Amikacin can lead to death and long-term kidney damage so be careful. General dosage only requires 6-10 units (.06 to .1 cc) per Kg by weight either sub-cutaneous or intra-muscular. I have observed some necrosis of the skin at the injection site so message the shot area to help disperse the drug some to avoid this.

Good luck.
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Thank you Mr. Crowley, I always try to pay alot of attention to your posts as they help me tons.

I wasnt told to refridgerate, should I be doing this? The vial doesnt say anything on it and the instructions just say amikacin. Does all Amikacin have B-complex mixed with it?

I kicked my temps up about two degrees around the clock, is this sufficient? Should my humidity stay or go up too?

Also I am currently perscribed to give .05 mL if this makes any difference. Not sure on the snake weight, but she has been skinny since I got her, and I'm working on getting her better, before fatting up. Should I continue feeding now? Or wait till she is better?

the exact weight of the python. If the vet didn't weight this snake, that would be a big problem. This is extremely important, and even more so with the "curtus" group. They are more sensitive to amikacin toxicity than other python species and should only be given a reduced dose. A dosage in ml or cc is not telling you anything unless you know the actual concentration of amikacin in that volume. The correct dosage for bloods is 1.25 mg per kilogram of body weight every third day. To calculate the proper dose to meet this requirement, you need to know the concentration of amikacin in the solution you are injecting in mg/cc or mg/ml and the exact body weight of the python. I would contact the vet and get this information from him if you are at all concerned about his knowledge of amikacin use with snakes. I have used amikacin with bloods in the late 80's and in the 90's and it can be used safely if used correctly. Do not use if the snake is dehydrated and make sure that fresh water is readily available at all times. I speak from experience, as when I first started using it, I came close to overdosing of few bloods. If this does not resolve the infection, move on to another class of antibiotic, and do not continue with another round of amikacin. Good luck.

Kelly

Kelly has great points! Like I said before Amikacin works great but it must be done so correctly. One important responsibility of a veternarian is to match the treatment with the OWNER. Talk with your vet and fully understand what is needed. Ask lots of questions. Don't let them just prescribe a treatment without thoroughly explaining to you want to you have to do and how to do it.
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Wow I've never seen someone immediately jump down my thoat for not knowing my snakes weight. YES the VET weighed the snake. I wasnt there supervising, cause I wont tell someone how to do their job. I am confident that the dosage perscribed was in line with the weight and all other available needed factors.

I'm sorry for not knowing my snakes weight and the proper ratio to dosage for amikacin and all other possible perscribed medications. I am however still very new to this and when someone new such as myself hears this kind of opposition, it kind of discourages them. Thus killing off all newbies who arent actual experts in the field, and having only two results.
1-Newbie stops seeking help online and only resorts to the crappy pet shop they purchased the herp from.
2-Newbie stops herping altogether thus never bringing one more person into this wonderful hobby.

We are all new to this at one time or another, and we have to respect that. Whether your new at the age of 3 or 30, we all have something to learn and we all have something to share.

I'm not leaving this hobby by any means, and I will continue to gather all the information I can to be the best herper I can to my snake. I will continue to learn just as you.

There are quite a few knowledgeable & dedicated herpers on these boards that have experienced not-so-pleasant results using amikacin, and are trying to share some experience with you.

Relax...unclench...listen & learn. None of this is a personal attack. You have a sick snake, it's your responsibility to use whatever resources are available to help it get better.

Simple enough?

>>Wow I've never seen someone immediately jump down my thoat for not knowing my snakes weight. YES the VET weighed the snake. I wasnt there supervising, cause I wont tell someone how to do their job. I am confident that the dosage perscribed was in line with the weight and all other available needed factors.
>>
>>I'm sorry for not knowing my snakes weight and the proper ratio to dosage for amikacin and all other possible perscribed medications. I am however still very new to this and when someone new such as myself hears this kind of opposition, it kind of discourages them. Thus killing off all newbies who arent actual experts in the field, and having only two results.
>>1-Newbie stops seeking help online and only resorts to the crappy pet shop they purchased the herp from.
>>2-Newbie stops herping altogether thus never bringing one more person into this wonderful hobby.
>>
>>We are all new to this at one time or another, and we have to respect that. Whether your new at the age of 3 or 30, we all have something to learn and we all have something to share.
>>
>>I'm not leaving this hobby by any means, and I will continue to gather all the information I can to be the best herper I can to my snake. I will continue to learn just as you.

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Bloodpythons.com - Whats YOUR Blood Type?

I do appreciate the input and I do realize people who mess up the dose, end up with not so live snakes. I wont be one of them. I do appreciate the concern and I am sorry if I was sounding a little ticked in my last post. It seemed to me like he was telling me not to use amikacin cause I didnt know my snakes weight and didnt know the proper ratio to give it to the snake. I didnt pay for vet school and I take it to the vet cause they did.

But the vet was right. i checked with your ratio and on the perscription, it has all the info right there.

I was questioning the competency of your vet, or appeared in opposition to the use of amikacin. My opinion has always been that you are paying big money for their services, so it is totally your prerogative to ask any questions you feel are necessary on their treatment decisions regarding your snakes. Many vets are not familiar with the heightened sensitivity to aminoglycoside antibiotics that the "curtus" group of pythons exhibit. It sounds like they knew their stuff, but when you said you didn't know the snakes weight, I was hoping it wasn't because they had just guessed (which some vets have done). I felt that it was better to error on the safe side and ask the questions.

Amikacin is a great antibiotic and I have never had any problems with it's use on RI's or mouth rot (stomatitis) in bloods. It's just that I have seen numerous close calls and you just need to be very careful with it's use. I think you just misinterpreted my concern. I think it's great that you asked the questions you did on this forum, as that is how all of us gain additional knowledge. I have made mistakes over these many years and tried to learn from them. Hopefully I can help others avoid these same mistakes that I made. Please let us know how everything turns out.

Kelly

A man who apologizes is a real man..
You did a fine job Kelly!!Please continue voiceing your opinion
and/or sharing your knowledge..
Thank you,
Tim.

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And I apologize for taking offense so quickly about what you said. Yesterday was a horrible day and I shouldnt allow myself on the computer when I have days like that. Now that I read your reply I see there was no harm meant, and I truly feel like the fool here.

Thank you for continuing to help me and not paying any attention to my out of place comments! lol

Overemphasis is nothing but a good thing when dealing with Amakacin, or any Anti-biotic for that matter. I've had a vet overdose Amakacin before, and nothing but freezer bait ever came of it.

I've been playing with Herps for 40 years and still KNOW
nothing as compared to what there is to KNOW..
As Kara said,Relax..
Gain Knowledge regardless of how the question was anwsered..
Your here for personal enjoyment and to enhance your Knowledge..
Enjoy and gain..Take comfort in Knowing you know something we don't..
Tim.