Reptile & Amphibian Forums

If you have thin skin or get easly offended please do not read this post.

I have been reading/posting now for six months on KS and I feel that there is a lot of good information here but yet I feel that six months is all that someone can take. As I see the names of posters/users come and go...you see persons who post every day for about 3-4 monts and then they poooof like a (yellow) ghost. Why is that? Do people get tired of all the typical "which rack system is the BEST", "Won't eat", "My BP looked at me wrong" etc. Let's get real here most of the people who post on here on a regular basis have been keeping BP for less than two years and then they go on to the more shootem' up bang bang forums. Why should this be? Why don't we see more of the bigger names in this business? Arent' they helping support this forum? Or is it for name regognition? Why aren't the "BIG" names in this biz posting on this forum? It would seem to me that these guys would want to educate, give advice, pass on tricks of the trade....breeders by from breeders correct. I would appreciate a contructive debate on this thread.
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Nick

Kevin from NERD posts all the time.....He is the biggest one out there!
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RicK & Caitlyn @ Ball Boutique, Inc.

Ball Boutique,Inc.
Proud sponsor of this forum

yes rick, you are correct. So you have one out of say 12-15 "big names" I don't consider that a success
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Nick

So does Brian from BHB and a lot of the others -- They're big for a reason you know too, they're BUSY.

I think your missing the point.........
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Nick

noticing my weight gain..huh?

I am now pushing a Large Big Breeder 285lb!!!!

I lurk waiting to find something good to post to....

Slim pickins!

Kevin

>>Kevin from NERD posts all the time.....He is the biggest one out there!
>>-----
>>RicK & Caitlyn @ Ball Boutique, Inc.
>>
>> Ball Boutique,Inc.
>>Proud sponsor of this forum
>>
>>
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

...a picture of a frosted ghost next to a orange ghost. I think that would be a good'n.
thanx

except me!
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RicK & Caitlyn @ Ball Boutique, Inc.

Ball Boutique,Inc.
Proud sponsor of this forum

one of the only ones that leaves room for a good sarcastic response!!

Now about them rocks.....

SATAN

>>noticing my weight gain..huh?
>>
>>I am now pushing a Large Big Breeder 285lb!!!!
>>
>>I lurk waiting to find something good to post to....
>>
>>Slim pickins!
>>
>>Kevin
>>
>>
>>>>Kevin from NERD posts all the time.....He is the biggest one out there!
>>>>-----
>>>>RicK & Caitlyn @ Ball Boutique, Inc.
>>>>
>>>> Ball Boutique,Inc.
>>>>Proud sponsor of this forum
>>>>
>>>>
>>-----
>>"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.
-----
"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

Not to idolize the "big names" and put them on a pedistal...but I'm sure most of them have a lot to do...and can't "be bothered" answering the 178th "which rack should I buy" question this week.
They probably figure most of the hobbyists, having read 177 "which rack should I buy" posts, can take care of answering said question.
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

that's my point....is it that they feel that this forum is for the amature....or is it because they feel that they are too busy to educate furture customers. I am not saying that a post from breeder "x" is needed every other day but it would be nice to see that these guys actually care about the future and direction this hobby/business is going.
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Nick

Hey Nick, There are guys that say they don't have time, but I figure they're only limiting themselves...their loss no need for us to worry about it. On the other hand there are plenty of large breeders here that are very helpful even though they are dealing with thousands of animals. Kevin McCurley has answered plenty of my questions on here, hell Greg Graziani called me on the phone to answer a genetics question I had in detail and then told me to call him any time. That's just two that come to mind right off, I've had contact with lots of "big guys". There are plenty people that care...just ask, you might be surprised.
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Dale....dgoins222@yahoo.com
www.LibertyReptiles.com

Dale....always full of good insight!

I do know that there are many great Kevin's and Greg's out there I just would like to see more of them on this website.
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Nick

hey nick..

i see your point... you would like to hear from the people leading the ball breeding industry.. i guess i would too. Kev posts here frequently and a few others on occassion but a few posts a year would be cool.

Although, i know it's not your point... But, there are tons of experianced keepers/breeders here that can answer most if not all of the basic questions that are posted that i see..

i think you would just like to see the big names offering some helpfull feedback...

~ mike

I see your point...
but where do you draw the line between amateur and expert?
Sure...I've only got 7 ball pythons...
and I have yet to breed...
but I know quite a bit about genetics (That I learned researching on my own behalf)...
and I read almost every post on the forums daily.

Am I an expert? An Amateur?
A geeky hobbyist with too much free time. (Ok...I admit that one)
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

You're putting too much value on those big breeders IMO. There are plenty of knowledgable people here, and those that are less knowledgable who are posting questions that can be answered on care sheets are your customers (if you are a breeder)! If they aren't getting good information, the hobby goes nowhere and all we have are breeders breeding for other breeders.

Sure, a lot of the information asked for here will be found on caresheets, but how many caresheets will give you 6 different opinions on something? You can't ask a care sheet questions. And of course, there is no one perfect caresheet. Everyone cares differently for their animals, and some care methods are great ideas that can't be found in any caresheets. However, people are very willing to share those ideas here.

I do not feel that I am putting too much "value" in the big breeders here. My point here is simple....there are quite a few people out there that reach out to the names that they see all over the ball world. I am stating that IMO if these guys post here it would overall help the quality and integrity of this forum. I do know that there are plenty of qualified breeders that post here on a reg. basis and that's awesome!! Why do you feel that people come and go so often on this forum?
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Nick

If the person asking the question is too lazy to use the search button to find the answer to the question that was posted maybe 1/2 a page away why should they waste their time. When I have a question I need answered and can't find it on my own I simply send a personal email, much better way to get an answer, rather than asking here and getting 300 people who have had snakes for 1 month try to anwer for me
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Nita Hamilton
--------------
Ball Pythons
ballpythonworld.com

They do frequent the forum. They frequent the forum on their OWN webpages.
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The Crawl Space

Their are alot of good people here that try and help as much as they can. There is also some that jump on every thread, just to see their name attached to it. They give no insight or information other then what they read themselves.
I feel that is the biggest problem with the fourm experince. Anyone can post anything, let it be fact or fiction. If Joe Blow says Balls only eat Guniea Pigs between the hours of Midnight and Two AM. Some one else will post and say, "I understand that Balls only eat Guninea Pigs, and I believe it's only at night on the east coast".
There is no checks or balances.
Quite a few hobbyist, take the time and try to educate the best they can. But I believe it's a up hill battle. This hobby is growing by leaps and bounds, New people get into the "ball game" every day. They come here to find information, a friendly helper and someone they can share their interest with.
With so much interest in Ball Pythons, it brings on a negative side as well. People who want to cut corners, ones that want to prey on the uneducated, ones that like to stir up the waters for others, you could say.
With all that going on, some long time hobbyists just give up trying to swim the waters we call Kingsnake.com. Let's be honest, some folks just don't like the way this site is being run.
Me, I've been around since day ONE. I think Jeff had a great idea and as you can see, this site is #1 for reptiles on the WWW.
There is no close second. Alot of us use KS everyday, to either read the fourms, post ads, or buy something being sold here.
Only we can as a collective, mold this site into what we want/need.
If you find fault, email Jeff. Give him some suggestions, or comments. When you have questions, post them. If you don't get a reply, post again. If you don't like or understand the answer(s) you get, then ask for a clarification.
This forum is a tool, and like any tool, you have to use it to get anything out of it. Letting it sit on the shelf, it will only get rusty.
I have been laxed myself in posting recently. I will strive to do better.
In closing, the hobby is evoling, changing, growing. We as a group, need to be here for the new guys and gals, for they are our life blood (if your a breeder) and they will look to you for guidance.
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Ron Billingsley
www.ronbillingsleyreptiles.com

Well said Ron.....My intention for this thread was to pump up/fuffle some feathers of some breeders out there and get them posting on KS. I know there are people who will respond to this thread saying "well he is just sooooo busy, I can't believe that you would ask mr. "x" to post on KS, he is just way above all of us" I say that's a load of crap. I understand that breeders have websites to run, projects to create, emails to respond to etc. We need 80% of all breeders posting and responding on this website period.
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Nick

Obviously the big breeders have a lot of valuable information to share, but you can't dismiss advice from people just because they don't breed ball pythons, or have only owned them for "under 2 years"

People who are beginners can sometimes think of things you don't, especially when the person asking the question is also a beginner. Obviously, someone who's never bred ball pythons shouldn't be giving breeding advice, but they don't try to either.

People know what has worked for them and what has worked for people they know, and I don't see too many issues arising from people giving completely bogus or harmful information. Nobody's saying "oh use a heat rock" or "it's perfectly fine to handle her a lot right after she eats" and if they did there are plenty of people here who will speak up and say otherwise.

In addition, I imagine those longtime breeders who now use rack systems to house their snakes and breed their own food can forget somewhat what it's like to be a beginner or an owner of a single pet ball python with a name other than "large f het albino female"

There is an easy cure for forum induced misinformation....Buy a copy of Kevin's book and the Barker's book on Ball Pythons and rest easy, because all of the info is as good as it gets and all of your questions will be answered.

Not all, but most of these beginners who are asking these questions are young adults to teenagers. They proably don't have the funds to run out and buy a $80 book. Granted, they should, but I don't see it happening.
So, you think we should just ask KS to disband this fourm and just post a message saying: Go buy a book, we arn't answering questions any longer.
Sorry, I think you are way off the mark on this one.
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Ron Billingsley
www.ronbillingsleyreptiles.com

Calm down Ron, I happen to think that the majority of husbandry info available on this forum is pretty good.

If one is concerned about getting the best, most reliable info possible, than I suggest they fork out the bucks and get one or both of those books. Those two authors worked their butts off to provide the best info possible.

You shouldn't be breeding high end morphs if you can't afford an $80 book.

I have both books. I think they are great. But books and forums are two different things. With fourms, you ask a question and you wait for a reply(s). A book, you have to look at the index. We are dicussing interactions here, not buying books. Let's try and stay on topic.
And we are not actually talking about breeding High End Morphs, just information on Ball Pythons in general.
This goes to prove one of my points..... It's almost impossible to stay on topic in these posts....
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Ron Billingsley
www.ronbillingsleyreptiles.com

If I log on one day and there is a huge banner posted that says:

"Everyone Went Home. Buy The Book." I'm going to be ticked.
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That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

get enough questions by e-mail and phone anyway from people who really want to get the answers from the "Big" guys.

They have their own forums, their own things to do... Imagine having a large collection of hundreds if not thousands of snakes.. It does not give much time to read all the forum posts and answer all the repetative questions.

Kevin and Brian post here enough, but they don't answer the small questions... There are plenty of other people who are qualified to do so.

Yeah, there are other bigger breeders who don't post here at all. There are other forums in which they do.

That's all. This is NOT the only forum out there...
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www.HeathersHerps.com

-Ohh, what a Lady-

Balls for Life, Baby!

SATAN and his soul sucking? Perhaps my presence frightens them away?

There can only be ONE!

I tend to lurk here a bit but I do get put off by the political correctness that Kingsnake must keep to maintain general happiness here. I like a bit of color, forums should be fun AND informative... we keep snakes for enjoyment!

I think that "big breeders" may shy away from these forums because they may get bashed and find it frustrating to do battle with a 12 year old behind a keyboard. They may also get into a debate with someone, post a bunch and watch the ENTIRE thread get YANKED????

Frustrating to say the least....

There were many interesting threads here years back and "big breeders" would debate and argue here. Over time, there was less tolerance(moderators) for post and subjects that were not pink and fluffy; too many people became frustrated, they watched their post removed over and over again!

Rick YOU KNOW what I am talking about!!!!!!

So that said, there are some major reasons why they no longer come here. Remember, not all of the "big breeders" get along!
I personally do not care about who is better and who is the greatest, there are MANY breeders out there that have AWESOME animals I would love to have and DESERVE the credit for their accomplishments. I really don't think there are a lot of breeders that can get past some of the issues here...

Mutation bad mouthing... (sometimes done sly or blatant)

Example - Pretty funny, another breeder can "butcher" the spider "head wobble" into the ground saying how defective they are and they are the WORST mutation.... They are doing it in my opinion to SLAM me, I DO NOT CARE!!!!!!! It is not going to HURT me and my market and make me look bad. Spiders have a few quirks but they are also just plain AWESOME and make some of the BEST mutations hands down!!!!! They think they will get to me and hurt my business, that is the bottom line, I personally think it is weak and a lovely form of SNOBBERY!

There are more Spider mutations than ANY OTHER MORPH!!!!! Not a bad track record for a "terrible and defective" gene!!!!

Breeders get tired of dealing with stories and lies and just don't want to deal with it anymore so they just plain avoid the forums. It takes a great deal of effort to keep everyone happy and sometimes it may be better not to even appear at all so someone can not get mad at you.

I know Kingsnake is doing a FUN Ball Python chat soon...I think Monday the 26th of this month.... Brian @ BHB and Brian at Chicago Newt Supply are going to BATTLE against me during it!!!!
We should be entertaining and informative and UNEDITED!!!!!!! hard to moderate me there!!!!!

As far as being helpful...I always look for something I can answer that others have not.... generally there are not many things unanswered and I do not want to appear as a "know it all"...in fact I AM A "KNOW IT ALL"!!!!

I really like to post pictures of new stuff we make @ NERD but it seems many people ignore these post of ours so I just stopped. There are cliches here, I am not trying to flaunt mutations but rather get excited about what you guys think of them! I am always amazed by the responses here.....

I try to get other Breeders to post and you may have noticed my cryptic ramblings from time to time to stir the pot....

Well, my post is long enough!

SATAN

>>get enough questions by e-mail and phone anyway from people who really want to get the answers from the "Big" guys.
>>
>>They have their own forums, their own things to do... Imagine having a large collection of hundreds if not thousands of snakes.. It does not give much time to read all the forum posts and answer all the repetative questions.
>>
>>Kevin and Brian post here enough, but they don't answer the small questions... There are plenty of other people who are qualified to do so.
>>
>>Yeah, there are other bigger breeders who don't post here at all. There are other forums in which they do.
>>
>>That's all. This is NOT the only forum out there...
>>-----
>>www.HeathersHerps.com
>>
>>-Ohh, what a Lady-
>>
>>Balls for Life, Baby!
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

When KS went to PC (Polical Correctness) it took away some of the "fun" and enjoyment some posters had.
I understand why KS did what they did. There was way to much BS going on. We all see what happens when rules have to be enforced....... Control.
It hurts the free speach of some, but stops the Rude, abusvie behaviors of others that only wish to cause trouble.
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Ron Billingsley
www.ronbillingsleyreptiles.com

.

Kevin well put! "the good old days"
And some like to take down each other.....stupid. All can have fun and enjoy the ball market and animals. I do!!!!!

You know they are reading and watching.
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RicK & Caitlyn @ Ball Boutique, Inc.

Ball Boutique,Inc.
Proud sponsor of this forum

"Breeders get tired of dealing with stories and lies and just don't want to deal with it anymore so they just plain avoid the forums."

That is exactly why I personally do not post here anymore. I have read enough bashing of "big breeders" this and "big breeders" that with all the other accompanying blah, blah, blah. I do email people privately from time to time, but after the last round directed against our snow and some of our other projects, I was done. Dan still posts once in a while, but I will not.

Colette

Hey, I want to publicly thank you for your help with my genetics questions!
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RicK & Caitlyn @ Ball Boutique, Inc.

Ball Boutique,Inc.
Proud sponsor of this forum

Hey Colette, I didn't mention you guys in my earlier post...but thanks for answering my question a couple weeks ago, I also spoke with Dan in Daytona which is another point to bring up here. If you go to shows and spend some time talking to people face to face you get a better understanding of those people and what they're working on and well...I consider myself lucky if I get to talk some of you on here. The travel time alone spent by these people shows they support us big time. If you think about it, this forum is just a supplement nobody owes us anything.
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Dale....dgoins222@yahoo.com
www.LibertyReptiles.com

Just wait until I get my Sulfur Ball breeding machine rolling, I will leave the hundreds of Spider crosses in the dust

OK, probably not. I admit to getting into the Spider project late, but I have to admit, it is definately one of my top three favorite snakes. The pattern is cool, but that is only the beginning, I really like the high white sides, and the overall color has a nice pleasing green tint. Mine actually does not wobble, but does have an amazing head pattern.

:e
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Christine
Tails With Scales Reptiles
Looks, brains, and venom . . . . how do I stay single?

>>
>>I know Kingsnake is doing a FUN Ball Python chat soon...I think Monday the 26th of this month.... Brian @ BHB and Brian at Chicago Newt Supply are going to BATTLE against me during it!!!!
>>We should be entertaining and informative and UNEDITED!!!!!!! hard to moderate me there!!!!!

Agreed. It will be hard to moderate you and the other guests during the chat. However, we can guarantee a cleaned up edit later for the public transcript. People who want the unedited version will just have to make sure they attend the live chat now won't they.
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_____

PHWyvern

Ah gee Wy, you forgot to mention the infamous gag button. I'd love to torture Kevin with that!

*very big evil grin*
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Ginger Sanders
Staff Director
Email PHGinger
[

>>Ah gee Wy, you forgot to mention the infamous gag button. I'd love to torture Kevin with that!
>>
>>*very big evil grin*
>>-----
>>Ginger Sanders
>>Staff Director
>>Email PHGinger
>>[

OH dear GAWD. Dont send me into a drunken stupor again!

Boys I hope there shall be no fist a cuffs during our Ball Chat.

Kevin does have it correct. Monday February 26 at 9 PM ET there will be a special 2 hour Ball Python chat panel with Brian from CRH, Brian from BHB and our own rock star, Kevin from Crotalus.

Extra moderator staff has been assigned to keep the boys in line.

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Cindy
PHFaust

Email Cindy

Land of the Outcasts!

Where do you get one of these wobbling Spiders? I have a turtle with a wobbling head on the dash of my car. Everyone loves him!
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1.1 Caramel Albinos
1.0 Spider
1.0 Mojave
1.0 Pinstripe
1.1 Piebalds
1.1 Het Caramel Albinos
0.3 Pastels
0.19 Normal Balls
1.0 Coastal Carpet Python
1.0 75% Diamond 25% Jungle Carpet Python

Hey Kev

Maybe since im a LIL guy and you are BIG guy you might not remember this but I sure do. When I was 18 my girlfriend at the time purchased a hot epicrates cenchria from you for my birthday.. She asked if she could feed it vegetables and not poor lil mice.. I was sure embarassed. anyways cause of you $ATAN and all of your crazy morph pics, that you have been posting since ive been a member to this kingsnake thing it has given me the sickness... there sure is no stopping it!

thanks again
Spencer

I've been posting on ks forums for the past 4-5 years. I've been a reptile enthusiast my entire life. 2 breeding seasons ago, I encountered a problem with a female bp laying eggs. I called a few big breeders and the ones I talked to said they had never heard of such a thing. There was one that apologized and plainly stated that he was too busy to look at the pictures I had posted on KS of the problem. I finally got in touch with someone that had experienced the same problem...Cory Woods. He advised me to do immediate surgery and walked me through what I needed to do. He told me that an egg had twisted in the oviduct. Anyway, the eggs were all fine - including the egg that got twisted. The female that laid the eggs survived for about 6 months, but then sadly, she passed. The moral is- that not everyone experiences the same thing. I am still so grateful to Cory for helping me through that stressful situation. It seems that when you do have a problem that you really need help with, someone will try to help you to the best of their experience (big breeder or not). I also think that a lot of big breeders are busy and expect (or prefer) people to do basic reseach to answer basic questions-unless (of course) they are their customers.

-Kenny Scott
-Spud
-spudsballpythons.com

I must say there are few big breeders that I have ever bothered asking questions to, pretty much, Corey is near, at least in my country and has always answered emails and calls whenever I had a question, also if it is serious and I want more info or another perspective, I've emailed Ralph and always gotten quick answers as well. When it concerned a business decision rather than ball python care or genetics I simply recieved an email saying give me a shout and we'll talk. I'm thinking if you are trying to actually reach some of these 'big guys' and they are blowing you off or not responding, perhaps it is the tone with wich people are approaching them. I seem to recieve the 'ask and you shall recieve' treatment, ask a question and I get answers, but then again I don't go in whining, complaining, ranting or accusing either. Hmmmmmm, maybe that helps huh.
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Nita Hamilton
--------------
Ball Pythons
ballpythonworld.com

I see that I have confused a few here....my apologizes for that. The purpose of this thread is not for me to find out what excuses or time related activities the bigger breeders have not to post on here. It is to find out what we as a community can do to attract more of the bigger breeders/hobbyist/keepers to KS and be able to read worthwhile posts. Maybe a Beginner/Intermediate/Advanced forum should be available.
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Nick

They have people coming to them...

They have personal forums where people check in and look at what they say.

And "big" breeders is relative.
Who are you really looking to hear from?
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www.HeathersHerps.com

-Ohh, what a Lady-

Balls for Life, Baby!

Point Still Stands?

"Big" breeders is relative...I would bet you that if you sat down and made your top 10 breeders and I made mine we would have 9 out of 10 the same....don't say that this is relative.

Gee...."they have people coming to them". I guess if you have a good thing going no need to reach out to new hobbyist/keepers. This makes no business sence at all....why would someone who has people coming to them just shut off all other means of recognition. That's when you kick it in to overdrive!

I know "they" have personal forums....I guess "they" don't check out the activity on KS and see what's being said on this forum about one of there new morphs.

I don't want to personally hear from anyone imparticular, my POINT is that most of the....I will say it again "BIG" breeders don't post on here because it's an amature site so to speak. I am asking what we can do to make it more education/worthwhile on a daily basis. It's as simple as that
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Nick

Big is relative. I still stand by that. You can hear from unknown people that have huge collections and may not respect what they say because they are not household names.

"I am asking what we can do to make it more education/worthwhile on a daily basis. It's as simple as that"

As for getting things more educational and worthwhile, there is no easy answer. People come here looking for answers that are easily found by looking on a care sheet, but prefer the personal approach. Thus becomes the repetative questions that need to be answered.

What I do to help the forum is to answer questions that I feel I have answers to, and be as friendly and helpful as possible. If the question isn't answered, then I try and answer it. I don't pretend to have all the answers... I don't think anyone does. We are ALL learning still. That is the bottom line.
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www.HeathersHerps.com

-Ohh, what a Lady-

Balls for Life, Baby!

I am not taking away from anyone who gives advice or passes on knowledge here. I am simply stating that THIS FORUM NEEDS TO BE KICKED UP A NOTCH AND HAVING CARE SHEET QUESTIONS WITH CARE SHEET ANSWERS IN NOT THE WAY TO KEEP PEOPLE ACTIVE.

I think that we will agree to disagree here.
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Nick

You say this to say what?

What do you propose, other than getting the bigger breeders to participate?
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www.HeathersHerps.com

-Ohh, what a Lady-

Balls for Life, Baby!

Heather,

how often do you post on KS (ball python forum)?

If you frequent anyother forum you will find that most people consider KS (ball python forum) to be a joke. I am simply asking what we as a community can do to keep the users active and involved instead of going to another forum where it's not the care sheet questions with the care sheet answers.

My Recommendations:

-we need to start utilizing the sub-forums
-set up a user activity rank
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Nick

2 good suggestions for the new Dir of Mkt

Hey, what is wrong with cheesy? Pride of ownership & sharing it with friends is not such a bad thing.

Cyber friends sharing w/ cyber friends increases site traffic.
More traffic = ability to charge a good rate for advertisers... which puts $ back into the mkt budget which will pay the fancy new mkt director to kick this site up a notch! Sorry, but this is a fact.

I'll remember not to post any cheesy pix of my cute bp anytime soon. Geez, you can be harsh. (kidding)

How many people on this site have actually met IRL? It's the cyber connection which brings people together to share this hobby & keep this site going.
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*newbie*

me personally, I don't post here as much as I used to and I'm not a big breeder. Why is that? Well because I'm extremely busy. I'd rather be keeping our collection extremely healthy than to answer the same questions over and over. I don't know you but how many snakes do you have? You gotta think, these large breeders have thousands of snakes. Some of these breeders have very minimal staffing and prefer to do most of the grunt work themselves which leaves no time to come on the forums and chat. If you can't understand that, well I'm sorry but that is how it is. It's their job and it comes before any forum. Heck some of the breeders that have forums of their own, don't spend much time on them. Their is only 24 hours in a day and they have to spend time with their families too. Give them a break. If you ever have a question that isn't answered here to your satisfaction, any of the large breeders will be more than happy to help you out if you call them, now that's personal.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

Josh....I have seen you on other forums quite often.

Read up a few posts.....breeders are not more busy than the president here. I'll I am saying is that it would only make sence....IMO....to want to share information, stories, pics here as this is a pretty large community. I guess I don't get it.

It seems as if people are more interested in speaking for all of these guys and not looking at reality.

How about the quality of posts in this forum josh....what are your thoughts?
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Nick

Josh, I have to agree with you.

I dont consider us one of the "big" breeders, but with a collection close to 1k snakes and years of experience to back it up I feel i can honestley say " TIME?" 'WHAT TIME" I try and post here at least once a week, I work a full time job and occasionally have computer acsess their. My fiance is a foreman for a roofing company, We breed our own rodents which are at a different facility with no computer hookup and we are there a few hours every other day, we are in the middle of breeding season this year and with no employees it is crazy right now, then when eggs are hacthing in becomes crazier b.c we will then have 1k new mouths to feed, which means a larger rat production - which means even less time.
I get up at 5:30 go to work get home at 4 :00 go to the rats till 6:00, go home cook dinner and start cleaning and caring for 1k animals which never gets done in one night, and that is not including feeding nights, or the nights we do pet shop runs to the locale shops to supply them with rodents. To top it all off we try to do shows on the weekends, to meet the public and new customers, sometimes traviling 10hrs one way, and then on Mon the week starts over. I wish i had more time but fact is we dont, I know many of the "big" breeders and know they are in the same boat.
I am not trying to bash heads but our life is non stop from the second we open our eyes to the moment we shut them, when dealing with living animals you need to be on top of the game 100% of the time, which in return leaves no time once i am away from the computer at work to even sign on line. I dont know how alot of "big" breeders even answer their emails, like i said i have a computer at my full time job that i have acsess to (which is what i am doing now) I know alot of the bigger breeders do not have that on their sides.
Anyways just my 2 cents, I enjoy this forum, a rank like someone said would add to it and maybe spark more interest, but i find myself on this site over all the others. I have accounts to many sites but have only posted 2 or 3 times in the past 3 or 4 years on them, i like the community here...

Sorry this was so long..but i do beleive that time is the big issue- If the big breeders had less time and could come here on a regular basis and answer all the repeat questions then they would have less time for their collections, and their for they would have smaller collections making them smaller breeders. BIG = BIG COLLECTIONS = NO FREE TIME

Kim
N.A.R.C

kim you cook ?
lol see you guys this weekend
-----
Albinos Unlimited home of the Jester ball.
website coming soon

I dont know if you would actually classify it as cooking lol... See you on Friday....
Kim

>>kim you cook ?
>>lol see you guys this weekend
>>-----
>>Albinos Unlimited home of the Jester ball.
>>website coming soon

How do you think those rats are warmed? Anyone for some weed-rat stew??
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

Worthwhile to who? There are subforums for breeding and other things, but hardly anyone uses them. This main forum is much more popular because of the variety of questions, and the fact that you can check back in a few hours and find new posts to read and also the quick response time for questions.

Besides, it seems to me even the "big" breeders dont mind taking a little time once in a while to answer a question from a beginner. It's sort of like why certain hobbyists bring their collections to schools to give assemblies. If we start creating a rift between the big breeders and the beginners this hobby won't go anywhere anytime soon and we'll have a lot of uneducated beginners. When beginners learn only from other beginners and never from more experienced people, a big knowledge gap is created. The mix we have here is only beneficial.

Good Point....

After being on here for awhile I see that people come and go. I think your digging in too far. There has to be some sort of break between "hey look at my sweet, charming, beautiful looking little gal, she's my sunshine" and the questions that are more complex and breeder relative"

I know there are sub-forums I guess there needs to be one called freakin' cheesy......LOL
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Nick

How about one where we could tell dirty snake jokes and get away with it. My snake is sooooo big...hahahaha
Well, it's cause she's gravid of course.
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Dale....dgoins222@yahoo.com
www.LibertyReptiles.com

.
-----
Nick

I don't think you quite understand... this is a hobbyist forum. I've been here for a year and quite a few "big name" breeders do post - you just might not know that they are one of the big breeders.
We're lucky we get input from the big breeders at all. Most forums on a hobby level don't get any input at all from the big names. Do you think designers for video games post on any of the myriad of forums devoted to them?

There's plenty of people with lots of experience who post here who AREN'T big breeders. College students, people who run rescue organizations, or people who have just had snakes for a long time. Why do their opinions and advice not matter as much to you as those from the big breeders? I've owned ball pythons for 15 years. Does what I say not mean as much as a big breeder just because I haven't had the fortunate opportunity make a living out of the hobby I love? Amarilrose is a very intelligent person who posts great responses - she's not a big breeder, does her research and knowledge not count? What about everyone else whose screen names I can't remember? There are TONS of extremely knowledgeable people on this forum. Looking at some of these posts I can't blame them for not always responding. Some days I feel like screaming if I see another "ZOMG MY SNAKE IS NOT EATING FOR TWO WEEKS IN A ROW HELP!" post.

If you want input from the big breeders go to their site and email them your question.

~jenny
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1.2 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, and Periscope)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
0.0.1 Mountain Horned Lizard
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 mice (Cute Girl Mousy)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
0.0.1 chupacabra (it ate our chickens)

jenny.thegreenes.org

Gee....you could have told me to read a few posts up and I could have not even read your post. I don't think you get it...I am not saying that the regular people i.e. college people, persons who have been keepers for quite some time who post on this forum do not have a clue as to what their talking about. To answer your question, if I had to have a question answered by either yourself or Bob Clark....that would be a tough one. Jenny you had your first cluth this year and now you think you know everything about breeding BP. This is a hobbyist forum.....take a poll on the people who keep BP's as a hobby(1-3 balls)and the people who are breeding BP's as a hobby. You'll be surprised.

>If you want input from the big breeders go to their site and email them your question.

Look up a few posts you might see that I don't need any questions anwsered from the big breeders. I simply said that it would make sence for them to be as active as possible on this forum.
-----
Nick

Jenny you rock!

~Rebecca

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0.1 Dumeril's Boa '04 (Courtney)
1.2 Ball Pythons
[1.0 '05 Orange Hypo (Specter)]
[0.1 '05 Het Orange Hypo (Sylvia)]
[0.1 '03 Normal (Sue)]
0.2 American Pit Bull Terriers (40lb darling lap dogs:Brandy&Mara)

could equal success
----------------------------------------------------------

I'm just a newbie owner of 1 bp.

I came here looking for "newbie info," & I am very pleased with the info I received & connections I made.

Being a newbie, I'm not sure how often I'll be visiting the site in 6 months time either. (not to mention it will be the middle of my summer & I hope I'm not online too much, lol)

What is the magic "hook" to make newbies continue visiting the site after 6 months? Do you have suggestions?

After getting past the initial learning curve, I can see myself stopping in to view classifieds, check on upcoming shows & maybe log in for a special guest chat. Maybe I'll check on the advertiser's specials. Maybe I'll want to see pix of sleek new morphs, new babies & my friends' bps. Maybe I'll stop in to see where the evil morph god traveled to on vacation, or how he bred a snake to a lamprey eel. lmao! (I just love eccentric posters, I'm a sucker for sarcasm, sorry)

If I get into owning multiple bps & possibly breeding, I can see myself continuing my frequent daily site visits. I mean, once you catch the bug, it's pretty easy to imagine yourself trying to breed your snake at least once or twice for fun, right??? CB snakes don't seem to have the overpopulation issues that cats & dogs suffer from. Maybe the "hook" is breeding? Maybe.

Quality education is key, imo. Slapnutz is doing a lot for this industry by simply exposing his class to their new snake. The more quality info he receives here & is pointed to (books etc), the better for his snake & the education of 20-30 kids? Right?

How many of you would have picked up this hobby *years* ago if you had a "class snake" to learn from & interact with? And what about the gender gap? What is the ratio of male snake owners vs females? If my mother had not been hysterically scared to death of snakes, that would have helped me a bit too, LMAO!

Although I am a total newbie at this hobby, I do have quite a few years experience working in tech, sales & mkt, specifically online marketing. I have worked at a few dotcoms & I know how difficult it is to run & maintain a profitable web biz. If you have not worked in the online industry for at least the last 10 years, you can't even begin to imagine what this site is up against. It's insane, really! It's easy to sit back & point out what you see as an area to improve on, but there are a ton of factors besides time & money that go into running a dotcom.

I saw they are advertising for a Dir of Mkt. This is a *huge* step in the right direction. If they find someone with the right mix of herp & dotcom experience, then you should see positive changes soon.

Just guessing here: They might start requiring more info of the people who sign up (just a little, nothing too evasive) so that they can better market to their database of users. Once they get a handle on how many newbies vs. advanced vs. breeders vs. advertisers etc, and what is most important to each segment, then they should be able to gradually make improvements to the site that will appease most users. Of course let's hope they have some scratch for the mkt budget too!!

Word of mouth advertising is free & helpful. Don't forget to send the link to this site to all your friends! Maybe an affiliate program will be instituted down the line. Who knows?

It is important to listen to what users have to say. If you can get Jeff's ear, perhaps you can express your concerns for the site & offer suggestions. Maybe the new hire will post an email address or online form for suggestions. Maybe they will poll users with online surveys as they devise an updated marketing plan.

If KS attends trade shows, they should definitely have a suggestion box at their booth. If anyone here sees Jeff at show, stop & chat or ask for his email.

There are endless possibilities that could come from the next creative mind to join the crew....(just cross your fingers that they truly have passion & knowledge for the hobby as well as the necessary job experience)

I wish this site the best of luck. I honestly believe that if they have made it this far in a spotty dotcom market, they will continue to grow & improve. You just watch!
-----
*newbie*

Great Marketing Passion for this Hobby
-----
*newbie*

sign in those 2 posts...

I guess the plus sign is not working this evening. Ugh.

__________________________________________________

Great Marketing *plus* Passion for this Hobby = success
__________________________________________________

Ok. I'm going to bed now.

-----
*newbie*

Paul Hollander

First off, I completely agree with you... BUT like a few others have said, it does get to be an up hill battle for people to answer the same questions every week.

Personally, I think that the greatest asset KS could do for itself and for the hobbyist/breeders that come to these forums (ALL of the forums not just the ball pythons) is to make the search feature better. By allowing users to conduct more precise searches of the forums (this means SPECIFIC forums, not EVERY forum at once the way it stands), we could direct quite a few of these questions to the search feature and they would be able to research some of these well asked questions on their own. Then, when these users are well educated about their options they can come back and participate more fully knowing that they have had the option to view all of these past debates.

One other thing, "Big" breeders are not always the most breeders with the most experience. (Don't bash me for writing that.) Sure they may have the most morphs, most animals, most whatever... but there are more than a few people on these forums that have been keeping reptiles (of all sorts) for 30 or 40 years (some of them even longer). Big breeding facilities are great... but all it takes is money to get them... it's the EXPERIENCE that the newbies are looking for. Now, don't get me wrong, those big breeders know what they are doing... but the "small" breeder/keeper with 3 times more experience is just as capable of answering 99% of the questions newbies ask.

I think there are a few reasons in general that participation is not constant.

One reason is that the forum format is of poor design. It looks like software from the mid 90's. I understand it generates more clicks then modern forum software so they can sell more advertising but is really not great from a users point of view.

Second may be the heavy moderation. It's their board and they can moderate it however they like but when people try to give honest answers to serious questions and their posts are deleted, they get upset and do not continue to post.

Another reason is that many breeders have their own websites with their own forums to support their customers and potential customers. If you're looking to buy a snake, you're not going to buy it from Kingsnake. They sell advertising so they aren't here to directly support someone who purchased something from a third party advertiser. They have some caresheets but the only way to get direct answers about your particular animal is to get it from other forum members.

One reasons the same question gets asked over , and over and over etc.... is that once a page full of new posts are added above it, a thread drops off the face of the earth.

Eliminate most of the repetitiveness, by the format (as on other forums) and people may stick around a bit more.

The other reason many people stop coming here is that people can get thin skinned at differences of opinion, and have posts pulled.

Heated debates keep it much more interesting than “ my BP is not eating” over and over again.

IMHO.
-----
"There is a fine line between a hobby and mental illness"
COLD BLOOD.........WARM HEART

Nick,

You have made a great point, I for one have felt terrible that I have not supported this forum more. I read it all the time, but I never seem to take the time to become a real active member of the regular posters. As a full-time breeder (never calling myself a big boy, although it’s an honor to be mentioned like that) I should be trying to answer not only topics like this, but also get involved in all topics. It is true that when you keep a large collection that your time is very short and you have to pick where you want to spend it, phone calls, e-mails, the animals, and a million other things that I won't get into. But I agree what better place to spend some then with people that are truly passionate on this forum. I know from my point of view I sometimes get turned off with some of the negativity that is on this forum, but I should be the bigger man and try to help put the positive view on things. Not an unrealistic view, but a positive one.
I can only speak for myself, but I will continue to make a better attempt to be here more and share my thoughts and I guess the knowledge that I’ve been so lucky to gain over the last twenty years of breeding snakes professionally.
I won’t be able to follow this thread because I have to catch a plane to the NARBC show in Dallas in about an hour. But I applaud you for a great topic! Brian (BHB

>>Nick,
>>
>>
>> You have made a great point, I for one have felt terrible that I have not supported this forum more. I read it all the time, but I never seem to take the time to become a real active member of the regular posters. As a full-time breeder (never calling myself a big boy, although it’s an honor to be mentioned like that)

Shut up@!!!!

You ARE FOR SURE ONE!!!

I fact you are my NUMBER ONE ENEMY!!!!

The battle between Good(well, just average in your case) and Evil must continue!!!!

"Easy stomach...easy STOMACH" - Yo Sammitty Sam

I should be trying to answer not only topics like this, but also get involved in all topics. It is true that when you keep a large collection that your time is very short and you have to pick where you want to spend it, phone calls, e-mails, the animals, and a million other things that I won't get into. But I agree what better place to spend some then with people that are truly passionate on this forum. I know from my point of view I sometimes get turned off with some of the negativity that is on this forum, but I should be the bigger man and try to help put the positive view on things. Not an unrealistic view, but a positive one.

You NAILED that one my midget pal!!!!

How's your "Harness" holding up?

>> I can only speak for myself, but I will continue to make a better attempt to be here more and share my thoughts and I guess the knowledge that I’ve been so lucky to gain over the last twenty years of breeding snakes professionally.

Now go stand in the corner and mumble "I hate myself, I must improve myself and WORSHIP SATAN"..... over and over again...or at least pray for me that my snakes will breed so we can do BATTLE!!!!

>> I won’t be able to follow this thread because I have to catch a plane to the NARBC show in Dallas in about an hour.

First class of course...I have to send myself U.P.S.!!!!
Kind of like Anthrax in the Envelope but WORSE!!!

SATAN

But I applaud you for a great topic! Brian (BHB
-----
"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

I laughed so hard when I read the UPS comment that I thought I may have wet myself. That was worth the entire post!
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1.1 Caramel Albinos
1.0 Spider
1.0 Mojave
1.0 Pinstripe
1.1 Piebalds
1.1 Het Caramel Albinos
0.3 Pastels
0.19 Normal Balls
1.0 Coastal Carpet Python
1.0 75% Diamond 25% Jungle Carpet Python

First, let me say that it appears that you may not have expressed yourself or explained precisely what your concerns and objectives where with the original post. I say this because of the stating and restating and confusion is most of the replies the the original post.
You ask why people come and go. People are inconsistant. Peoples interests change. People decide to do something different. Go somewhere else.
You ask why the big breeders aren't posting on this site, several different ways. I think your perspective on the subject would be defined a little better if you knew the history of the forum in years and not months. I think you might have a better perspective of the forum if you knew more of the behind the scenes history and not just what you read here. I think you might have a better perspective if you had been visiting other forums for years and not months. You might have a better perspective and understanding if you had been in direct contact with a number of those breeders who used to post here frequently, years ago.
It would seem to me that if you want information and support from the big breeders you would go to where the big breeders post and interact with forum guests.
I'm not sure how far back you can read on this forum but that might help also. You can see an evolution of this forum over the years. Evolution and change over time isn't always a bad thing. Its just that you can't compare the forum now to the forum then.
Chris

Sounds like someone is a little touchy on the history of KS.

First off I do not need the support or contact from the big breeders...I believe that this forum needs their support (from and educational standpoint). I think that most of you are digging way to deep into this.......
-----
Nick

Most everyone that has responded to your post has given an opinion. You have most of the time then discounted their opinion and restated what your questions and or comments are. You now has said a couple of times that most of us are digging way too deep into this...
Nick, here is suggestion. If you don't want an answer or possible answers then don't ask the question.
It appears to me that you have also misunderstood most everyones replies about your initial question. You are saying that this forum needs to take a step up. That the big breeders and those with substantail experience need to start making posts again. What you misunderstood from my last post is that if you knew some of the history of this site and the feelings and points of view of a few of the "big breeders" and those with experience then you would might understand why you don't see alot of posts from them.
So, you are saying that this forum needs the support and contact of those big breeders...yada... there were here. Years ago. Most of them are not here now.
Things are always changing. Change is good. If some of them start posting again. Great. If not great.
You can always just go to another forum. There are plenty out there.
Your initial post had good intent. I guess maybe just a like misdirected?

Thanks for your feedback...I do think that I got alittle off track and started to confuse myself...lol....
-----
Nick

Nick,

Believe it or not, people do have lives outside of reptiles. Sometimes, they have more time to post, sometimes, they have less time. Breeding season is a busy time of year.

Nubes, are at a stage where they are very excited so they post and read as much as possible. After the newness wears, they slow on their posting.

Yes, people do get tired of answering (or reading) the same post asked yesterday or two minutes ago. As someone pointed out, the Search feature here is well under powered.

Bickering and bashing takes its toll.

>Let's get real here most of the people who post on here on a regular basis have been keeping BP for less than two years and

I'm not sure how you would know this without asking each person. Either way, does it matter? If they have helpful information to contribute, then why not.

For what it's worth, I have been posting on KS for about 6 years. I have seen many people come and go. The big names have never really been that active (aside from just a couple). But keep in mind just because you have great marketing (big name) doesn't mean you know what's going on. There are some big names that got there by buying up other people's animals and representing them as their own, for example, that had virtually no experience.

Lately, I have not been posting due to being way too damn busy with life (repairing daughter's car, son's travel hockey, work, breeding season, etc.). I post when I have time and when I feel I can make a good contribution. Otherwise, I just read. Besides, it's good to add new blood (and new ideas) to the mix.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

Jay....thanks for your input.

I do know that breeders have a life outside of reptiles. One last time......this is not a thread to beg the bigger bredders to come and play house with me/us. This is a post to try and better this forum and I think it can and will be done by few of the top breeders. They will step up.
-----
Nick

Thank you for posting on this topic.

I think we all appreciate your insight.

Now, I understand that respect is an issue that some people are not tactful enough to use. I feel your pain and am sorry for all the mublings and mutterings behind your backs.

For what its worth, I would like to thank you for making this industry what it is. Be it here, in chat, or on another forum, you deserve much more respect than what is given to you by the general public.

Kudos to you.

PS. Nick, I hope you got your answer
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www.HeathersHerps.com

-Ohh, what a Lady-

Balls for Life, Baby!

This has been a fun read!!!

I don't think I will ever be able to have an exact answer, oh well, at least it got some people thinking.
-----
Nick

YOU

Sometimes you REALLY DO scare me satan,,,,take it easy
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-Sam the Man

LOL - Funny thread

I'll refrain from posting my opinion as I wouldn't want to disillusion the masses. LOL.

Seriously tho - what "more" are you looking for?
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Tosha

people who think they are bigger breeders...used to come in here alot.......WHEN they got a new morph and wanted to advertise it and try to make deals........and try to make us all want one.......then they argued and had 1000 fights and finally got smart and left here.......fights all the time.....nothing really good....nothing you couldn't get from a book ........now that all the $25000 snakes are $2500 and the $2500 are $250......they don't bother with this.......everyone has 2 and noone wants anymore anyways.......and the new morphs are all just normals anyways ........

right?

...........they all were here and all had fights.........except.........

Mark Bell has never been in here and Brian Barczyck is too nice to fight and only advertised pics when he was bugged and prodded to do so.........he actually will stand and chat for an hour at a show or at a hotel or anywhere.......he is cool........(Dave Barker will chat in person too but I really am not sure he ever came into here....Tracey was here alot......before)...

Hi all........how Y'all been?........we miss the drama?........not?...........

...........oh...and all the morphs make white snakes anyways....we know............

...........and pastels are all you need.......so pretty........so cheap..........

in here.......2 weeks reading this crap makes a genius out of newbies.......they ask questions one day and answer them the next.....

.........
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...............
.........
.....................still loaded........

Mark has never been in here....but its Kim with all the balls!!(pythons that is, lol)...Ian I dont recall coming in here .....
plus a handful of big guys.....that arent too well known, but can beat some of the "big" guy collections to shame.....

Probably because they come in tell it like it is and get banned for speaking their mind without using kid gloves for the newbies! The only ones that really stick around and post regularily are the ones that think everyone should be treated like a 3 yr old, and don't mind doing it. People leave because they find forums where they can type the same way they would talk to a person as they would face to face without being banned for it!
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Nita Hamilton
--------------
Ball Pythons
ballpythonworld.com