Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I’m planning on having whiteside Brooks (m) X leucistic Texas rats (f) this year. I am curious about any relationship between these two, and surprised if this hasn’t been explored yet. If the whiteside came from black rats to begin with, these two should have some alleles that are very closely aligned. I’ll probably only keep a couple, I’d be happy to share anything extra I produce if anyone is interested in working with these. I would like to be responsible with the extra “mutts” and see they go to someone interested in this project, or I’d be inclined to cull extras. Is that harsh or the right thing to do?

I think that's a very responsible way to look at it although if you are sucessful, that cross (even without any alleic mutations) should be unique enough that hybrid people would want to work with them and they would be hard to pass off as something pure. Texas rat X Brooks King should be an interesting looking animal in itself. Good luck to you!

I’m embarrassingly ignorant in the genetics department beyond simple recessive traits, so forgive me for asking. In this mix, is there any contribution of “normal” Texas rat coloration? Would these hatchlings have to be colored by the inherited Brooks pigment only? I know they will be definite het for whiteside and leucism, but what’s “normal” in this mix?

they would probly be king/rat even mix's but im asssuming you would have to breed them mutt babies back to back and you get half whitesided hybrids and half luecistic hybrids if there on a different allele ,if not then im not sure what they would pull out ? how are white sideds formed?

I assume they are produced from breeding two whitesided Brooks together since they’ve been around for awhile. I know the leucistic rat was from a long line of leucistics, not hets. As far as I know there is no direct link to “normal” Brooks or “normal” Texas rat in this mix, so I’m figuring the only normal pigment would come from the “normal” part of the whitesided parent.

You are breeding a Texas Ratsnake to a Brooks Kingsnake. That's the bottom line, the hatchlings will be (in my opinion) double het normal crosses between the aforementioned animals. When these normal hybrid offspring are bred together, you would get both whitesided & leucistic offspring as well as a number of hets. One out of every sixteen would theoreticlly be a Whitesided Leucisitc (whether this is possible remains to be seen) for the exact breakdown just look at a punnet square for a snow corn and replace the "anerythristic" with "whiteside" and the "amelanistic" with "leucisitc" they are all simple recessive traits and will exhibit themselves as such regardless of the parent species. (unless there's some kind of compatibility between the two mutations) in that case you would see something in the first generation. I don't think that will be the case. It's been proven that amelanism and leucism can be exhibited in one animal at the same time but I don't think you would be able to tell the whiteside leucistic from the regular leucistic animals in the clutch. Of course pigmentless (red) eyes make it possible to identify an amelanistic luecistic animal.

I hope this hasn't confused you further.

But to answer what I think was your original question the offspring would look similar to the other Florida/Brooks X Black/Yellow ratsnake crosses in the first generation.

Horridus

Very clear explanation, I have no problem with any of that. I guess I was thinking with a long established line of leucistic the normal color would no longer just be simple recessive, but “bred out” of it and no longer able to pass along the “normal” trait so simply. Your example of substituting leucistic with amelanistic or those terms in the normal application of the punnet square makes it simple and clear. Shows you what I know. Now as to that whiteside leucistic, hmmm, if you look at the two pics I posted, my whiteside Brooks is a brilliant white while the leucistic is a sort of off white, not so brilliant. Maybe if one popped out with those two shades of white it would be easy to tell just from that? I think we’re a few years away from that yet...Thanks for all your input.

I would also love to see what these babies look like.
I bet they will be something awesome.