Reptile & Amphibian Forums

does anyone use this? how do you like it and please tell me what you pay for a 40lb bag? and where you get it from? thanks for your help.

Harlan lab blocks are considered to be the best quality lab block available. The formulas with little or no corn are the better ones for rats and mice.
I use Harlan-Teklad 2018, 18% protein. I pay $13 for a 33 lb bag at the reptile show. I don't believe it comes in a 40 lb bag, just 33 lbs.

Harlan produces a high quality diet and this 18% protein diet is one of the best. I frequently hear rodent breeders using diets with higher protein, thinking that they are somehow better for their mice or rats. Actually, any diet much over 20% protein is a waste of effort and money, as it is more protein than they need. The extra protein will not be used by the rodent, and will simply be excreted as excess nitrogen, mostly in the urine.

Kelly

Is the 2018 better then Purina 9F?

I use the Purina 9F in the last year and like it more then the 6F. I never used the harlem product before.
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1.1 Albino Sonoran Gopher
2.0 W.C. Sonoran Gopher
1.1 Red Bull Snake
1.1 San Diego Gophers (het albino applegate)
2.2 Leucistic Texas ratsnake
1.1 "White Oak" ratsnake
2.3 W.C Okeetee Corn
1.2 Abbt line Okeetee Corn
1.0 Reverse Okeetee Corn
0.1 Creamsicle Corn
1.2 W.C Miami Phase Corn
1.1 Sinaloan Milk
1.0 Albino Honduran Milk
1.1 W.C Mexican Black King
0.2 C.B Mexican Black King
2.0 W.C Cal King
1.1 C.B Cal King
0.1 Durango Mountain King
1.0 Desert King
1.3 Northern pine
1.1 N.J White pine
3.5 Black pine
1.2 kankakee Bull
2.3 Bearded Dragon
0.0.40 Red Eye Tree frogs
7 Tanks full with African Cichlids.
Many Mice, Rats and feeder Roaches

In my opinion it is. Slightly higher protein, 18% compared to 16% in the Mazuri. Also the main ingredient in Mazuri is corn, which just ends up as more waste products since rats and mice don't really process corn.

I've heard that waste from Harlan 2018 fed rats and mice doesn't smell as bad since it's a totally vegetarian diet and has no animal fats or products. I haven't noticed myself but then I never really did any tests either =)

The main difference between the two is the fat content and corresponding available energy. The Harlan 2018 has 5% fat compared to 9% in the 9F. Protein content is about the same with the 2018 at 18% and 9F at 20%. This would place the 9F as a slightly higher energy diet. Both will get the job done and I wouldn't expect a big performance difference between the two when used with a breeding colony. The only difference might come into play if you are working with a certain mouse strain that genetically needs a higher energy diet when in a heavily producing breeding colony situation. The top main ingredients of each diet are almost identical, with the only slight difference being the 9F does contain a small amount of fish meal.

Kelly

In my experience with my breeding mice and rats colonies using Purina 9F over the Purina 6F in the last year, the female breed larger size litters, less cannibalism and larger babies.

I never tried the Harlan (I don’t know if they have a dealer in AZ)

With non stop breeding the right food does make a different.

Not to mention the nutrition quality of the rodent as a food source to my reptile.
-----
1.1 Albino Sonoran Gopher
2.0 W.C. Sonoran Gopher
1.1 Red Bull Snake
1.1 San Diego Gophers (het albino applegate)
2.2 Leucistic Texas ratsnake
1.1 "White Oak" ratsnake
2.3 W.C Okeetee Corn
1.2 Abbt line Okeetee Corn
1.0 Reverse Okeetee Corn
0.1 Creamsicle Corn
1.2 W.C Miami Phase Corn
1.1 Sinaloan Milk
1.0 Albino Honduran Milk
1.1 W.C Mexican Black King
0.2 C.B Mexican Black King
2.0 W.C Cal King
1.1 C.B Cal King
0.1 Durango Mountain King
1.0 Desert King
1.3 Northern pine
1.1 N.J White pine
3.5 Black pine
1.2 kankakee Bull
2.3 Bearded Dragon
0.0.40 Red Eye Tree frogs
7 Tanks full with African Cichlids.
Many Mice, Rats and feeder Roaches

the Purina 6F is not specifically a breeder colony diet; it is intended to be used as a maintenance diet. The Purina 9F is probably the best for a heavily bred colony, but Harlan 2018 is very close.

Kelly

The Mazuri website lists the protein content of 9F at 16%, not 20%. And the main ingredient in 9F is corn, while the main ingredient in 2018 is wheat.

I agree with the rest of your post =)

We were talking about the Purina 5020 mouse diet 9F. It has wheat as the main ingredient and has 20% protein. For an intensive mouse breeder operation, it is probably the best available. However, I would say the Harlan diet is pretty close, and either one would be fine for a typical breeding colony.

Kelly

Definitely comes in bigger bags. I worked in a petting zoo last summer, and I'm pretty sure they got it in 50lb bags. My dad verifies that what we used to get were 50lb bags, as well. Definitely more than 33 lbs. Trust me, after a summer of carrying around bags of the stuff, I can tell you that those Harlan bags were just as heavy, if not heavier than 50lb bags of dog food.

It's great stuff. I've used it in the past, and tons of zoos use it. It's super high quality, and it's cheap.

im thinking its bedding not food???

If it's bedding not food you are talking about, then well you need to provide more details. "lab grade pelleted" doesn't really tell us much.

Harlan sells pelleted wood bedding, pelleted paper bedding, and many types of pelleted feed.

pelleted paper bedding. sorry about the confusion.

Ok, sorry I haven't used that product, if I could buy it I would try it but the price is a little high compared to their other beddings. I have these prices from Harlan from a recent trip by someone to their warehouse. They have a minimum order of $100 for pickup orders.

# 7089 Diamond Soft Bedding - 20lbs - $15
# 7090A Sani-Chips - 2 cubic feet - $6.65
# 7084 Pelleted Paper Bedding - 40lb - $10.65
# 7087 Soft Cobs Enrichment Bedding 25lb - $13.65
# 7086G Pelleted Hardwood Bedding - 40lb - $7.65

Pelleted wood is $3 cheaper per bag so I'd go with that one if I had a choice.

I use Harlan Aspen Bedding since that's all my dealer buys. I pay $13 for 4.4 cubic feet compressed. It's about twice as much as the biggest bale of Kaytee Aspen sold at PetSmart for the same price. Better quality and much finer shreds as well.

As for the pelleted paper bedding, seems the same as Yesterdays news unscented cat litter which is fairly easily found at PetSmart and PetCo. I think it's around $13 for 32 lbs?

thanks for your help. i called them and there pelleted paper is now 15.00 a bag? shipping stinks.