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The NARBC show in Arlington Texas was great this weekend. Seeing Mr Bill Love was not busy for a moment I realized I had an opportunity to ask him a bit about Brooksi.
He told me the original pair that produced their first Hypos were not High Yellow Screamers,,,,which is what a lot of people including myself think of when we try to imagine a true Brooksi. He said they were a very pale yellow, and that some were so pale they were often sporting a look of a reduced pattern.
He also told me that back then when deciding if they had a generic Florida King or a Brooksi the amount of pattern on the Brooksi belly was greatly reduced, 50% or more of the belly pattern was unmarked.
He also told me they felt Brooksi had smaller heads. So much for the Pin Head theories concerning Brooksi fed a lot and grown up quickly! Apparently they were also found like this in the wild.
He seemed shocked when I ran off a list of morphs now found in Florida Kings. He had no idea there were so many. Since tracing origins is no easy task I really appreciated him taking a few minutes to discuss that with me. It does however bring back the question.......what did the text book Brooksi look like way back when? It seems the high yellow was certainly a part of it, but that was not the only thing that was definitive as far as that subspecies went. Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com

In my limited experiences, "hi-yellow" was NOT a part of L.g.brooksi at all. They were always pale yellow. More creamy if you will. In those that were the most pale in color, it was often difficult to see much "pattern". The higher, darker, deeper yellows were from animals found north of what was then considered brooksi territory. All the way to up around me in Tampa. Many of the "sulphur yellow" snakes were from around here in Hillsborough.
I do remember not liking the pale snakes as a kid... I liked bold patterns on snakes I guess.
:Mark

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Surrender Dorothy!

www.crimsonking.funtigo.com

I kept Brooks "back in the day" (15 years ago) and yes, having a small head (or reduced snout length) was a characteristic that was often mentioned. I agree with what the other person who posted said about them not being yellow. There's a photo in Dave Perlowin's book showing one that's almost white.

Dick Bartlett's book "In Search of Reptiles and Amphibians" offers some insight as well. He relates the difficulty in finding these snakes and how well their coloration matches the sandy areas on the canal banks where he was looking for them.

To me Brook's are like Everglades Rats - there's variation among the snakes out there and you'll always be in search of the "ultimate" one.

Tim

Some of my nicest normals brooks that I had came from Lee Abbot. I have to ask him at this years expo about the origins of his stock. They were bone white as adults. You don't see screemers like that any longer. I would buy them up in a heartbeat if I found any.

Have any photos of the bone white brooksi, and why are there no longer bone white ones available, you'd think people would breed to enhance the trait.
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-J.Hill

I sold my last one (an adult) to a guy who bred floridana morphs. He probably used it to procuce hets and that darkened the line up.

You have to remeber when the hypos came out they were the end all to the light colored brooksi people were tring to achive with normals. AFter that selctive breeding was abandoned for normals.

Couldn’t agree more on the hypo ending the search for decent field collected Brooks. You could ask Douglas Beard about the origin of his line of hypos, they were supposedly from a wild caught by the old Miami Jetport in Collier County. This is about 35 miles west of Miami, well within “Brooks” range. I think his are the real deal. I’m sure he bred it to every Brooks he could find so who knows how “pure” even those ended up being. (You might explain the screaming match between him and Tim Ricks if you want to elaborate for the newbs- ha ha) It is curious how the the Love line of hypos popped out at the exact same time as Beards. And equally curious how they weren’t popping out anywhere else with what was probably a fairly small gene pool. I think the diffused pattern on the sides of the snakes is a tell-tale sign of Brooks, and Brooks are not “mahogany” colored. Those washed out white ones are the color of “oolic limestone”. These snakes have adapted to the colors you see in these pictures I lifted off other sites. In other areas of Florida where the sugar sand dunes are basically the same color, you can find some regular “non” Brooks Florida kings that have also adapted to the lighter ground cover, and color. Those xeric scrub areas of sugar sand, Gopher tortoise, etc are highly endangered areas that are practically non existent now.

>>You have to remeber when the hypos came out they were the end all to the light colored brooksi people were tring to achive with normals. AFter that selctive breeding was abandoned for normals. >>

I think the anery/axanthis morphs also lessened some of the interest in selective breeding for the "white" brooksi.

I think the anery/axanthis morphs also lessened some of the interest in selective breeding for the "white" brooksi.

I am not so sure about that. The axanthics came out wayyyy before the lavenders and people just ignored them . I rememer at oralndo expo one year a subadult axanthic sat on Lloyd Lemkes table for $100. and he had to take that snake home with him. This was when hefty prices of colubrids was in it heyday. I think 5-6 years later Beard and Loves had the Lemkes for $770. a pop on their tables. Thats when the interest in the high yellow normals dropped dramatically.

Whats even funnier is knowbody bred the hypo to axanthic right away to create ghosts. Same goes with hypo x lavenders. I learned something about that and now if I get a new morph I would rather breed it to make double hets than produce more of the same thing. I guess it comes down to whether it is a business or a hobby. I don't care about the money. I care more about creating new things.

NP

So when they increased the price more people wanted them or was it just that the interest was'nt there then one year they sold out of them and the next year they were high priced.
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-J.Hill

Posted by: Gophersnake13 at Wed Feb 21 16:00:44 2007 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

So when they increased the price more people wanted them or was it just that the interest was'nt there then one year they sold out of them and the next year they were high priced.

The interest was not there because people were not familiar with them Its all about keeeping up with the Jonses. I bought my first New England axanthics for $60. and hets for $25. Ever since I raised them I have been selling out at $125/ each

A lot of new morphs go through this period. What people don't know they are afriad to touch. When somthing has been around a while then BOOM. They take off. Happens a lot with new morphs. Sercret is get a nose for whatever is new and buy it first.

Yearling.

At this rate, I'm going to be forced to build a house with a very large snake room and hire help to keep all the snakes I see and think "I want one like that"...

Beautiful snake you've got there...

Where should I send my resume?
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3.3.3 L. getula californiae
1.1 L. getula nigrita
1.0 Boa constrictor constrictor (suriname, fostering/rescue)
2.3 Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata

I'll let you know as soon as I pass the bar exam and can afford to build my "zoo"

or maybe I should call it my reptile garden, like the one in South Dakota...

What do you think about the hy-red brooks? To me I find them awesome!

i like the Red Floridas (same as a Brooks but probably not politically correct) that the saddles are red, not just the sides which fade away with age common on the hypos.
hope i choose the right pic to post

2/07 pic of that 05 fem

"NICE" snakes, love those reds!

that would be singular,same snake in all 3 pics.C

Are'nt "Brooksi" Supposed to have a more broken pattern and "speckling"?
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-J.Hill

To Say The Least! i say a light/reduced pattern sums it up compared to some Flas.

Those two bottom pics are perfect examples of what I would call the diffused pattern on the sides of a true Brooks (as we call them in the hobby) and a very nice light example of Florida king in the bottom pic, with that distinctive pattern on the sides. Very unscientific (and I’d like to keep it that way!) but that’s how I’d call it. The top pic I’d call some sort of intergrade or sweater box creation that I wouldn’t think you’d have any sort of locality info on. Still a great snake, and technically, all three are really the same thing except for the “look”.