Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well, I posted this little guy here a while back and there was some concern as to his lineage.

I contacted Tim of Amazing Grays and he assures me this is indeed a River Road locale animal:

"The picture you sent us looks like some of the other River Roads we have in our collection and we're sure if we sold it as a River Road, it's a River Road. If you want, we can bring receipts to the next sale that show who we've purchased River Road from in the last 5 or 10 years...you could refer to the River Road section of Gerold and Walter Merker's 2005 book: Alterna: The Gray-Banded Kingsnake.
The lighter of the two snakes in the upper left picture on page 41 of that book looks close enough to be a sibling of your animal."

Just thought I'd share the results with y'all!

BTW, the empty water dish was just added for color contrast, it's not a husbandry oversight.
-----
Diego

Diego & Tiffany's Zoo:
SNAKES
2.4.0 Corn Snakes (Different morphs)
1.1.0 Hypo Everglades Rat Snakes
2.1.0 Baird's Rat Snakes
1.2.0 Trans-Pecos Rat Snakes
1.1.0 Trinket Rat Snake
1.0.0 Japanese Rat Snake
1.1.0 Salt and Pepper Bull Snakes
0.1.0 Amel Pacific Gopher Snake
1.0.0 Het Amel San Diego Gopher Snake
0.1.0 San Diego Gopher Snake
3.2.0 Sonoran Gopher Snakes
0.1.0 Amel Sonoran Gopher Snakes
1.1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake
2.1.0 Gray Banded Kingsnakes (2.1 River Road)
1.0.0 Hypermelanistic California Kingsnake
0.1.0 Albino High White California Kingsnake
0.2.0 California Kingsnakes
1.1.0 Thayeri Kingsnake
0.1.0 Florida Kingsnake
1.1.0 Boa Constrictors
0.1.0 Dumeril's Boa
2.0.0 Rosy Boas (Mexican & Mid Baja)
1.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.1.0 Indonesian Dwarf Pacific Boa
1.1.0 Ball Pythons
1.0.0 Woma Python
1.1.0 Cape York Spotted Pythons
1.1.0 Macklot's Pythons
1.1.0 Western Hognoses
1.1.0 Malagasy Giant Hognoses
1.0.0 Blacktail Cribo

LIZARDS
1.0.0 Frilled Dragon
3.1.0 Bearded Dragons (2 Normal, 1 RedXGold, 1 Citrus)
0.1.0 Eastern Collared Lizard
1.0.0 African Fat-Tail Gecko
0.1.0 Merauke Blue Tongue Skink
1.4.0 Leopard Geckos
1.0.1 Yellow Niger Uromastyx
1.1.0 Chuckwalla
0.1.0 Banded Gecko

FROGS
2.2.0 Southern Bell Frogs
1.0.1 Green Tree Frogs
1.0.0 Bubbling Kassina
1.1.1 White's Tree Frogs
0.0.2 Gold Frogs

As i said when you first posted this snake, I think it looks more like the Loma Alta Alterna on page 77.. But, who am i to disagree..

Regardless of local.. You have a GREAT looking Alterna there!

~ Mike

Thanks, Mike. I'm rather fond of him!
-----
Diego

Diego & Tiffany's Zoo:
SNAKES
2.4.0 Corn Snakes (Different morphs)
1.1.0 Hypo Everglades Rat Snakes
2.1.0 Baird's Rat Snakes
1.2.0 Trans-Pecos Rat Snakes
1.1.0 Trinket Rat Snake
1.0.0 Japanese Rat Snake
1.1.0 Salt and Pepper Bull Snakes
0.1.0 Amel Pacific Gopher Snake
1.0.0 Het Amel San Diego Gopher Snake
0.1.0 San Diego Gopher Snake
3.2.0 Sonoran Gopher Snakes
0.1.0 Amel Sonoran Gopher Snakes
1.1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake
2.1.0 Gray Banded Kingsnakes (2.1 River Road)
1.0.0 Hypermelanistic California Kingsnake
0.1.0 Albino High White California Kingsnake
0.2.0 California Kingsnakes
1.1.0 Thayeri Kingsnake
0.1.0 Florida Kingsnake
1.1.0 Boa Constrictors
0.1.0 Dumeril's Boa
2.0.0 Rosy Boas (Mexican & Mid Baja)
1.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.1.0 Indonesian Dwarf Pacific Boa
1.1.0 Ball Pythons
1.0.0 Woma Python
1.1.0 Cape York Spotted Pythons
1.1.0 Macklot's Pythons
1.1.0 Western Hognoses
1.1.0 Malagasy Giant Hognoses
1.0.0 Blacktail Cribo

LIZARDS
1.0.0 Frilled Dragon
3.1.0 Bearded Dragons (2 Normal, 1 RedXGold, 1 Citrus)
0.1.0 Eastern Collared Lizard
1.0.0 African Fat-Tail Gecko
0.1.0 Merauke Blue Tongue Skink
1.4.0 Leopard Geckos
1.0.1 Yellow Niger Uromastyx
1.1.0 Chuckwalla
0.1.0 Banded Gecko

FROGS
2.2.0 Southern Bell Frogs
1.0.1 Green Tree Frogs
1.0.0 Bubbling Kassina
1.1.1 White's Tree Frogs
0.0.2 Gold Frogs

clearly the alterna on page 41 has ventro-lateral alternate markings, and your alterna lacks or very nearly lacks any alternate markings anywhere. This is a subtle nuance that is easy to pick up on. The phenotype your pictured animal displays does not fit within "normal" variation in the River Road population.

Just because someone says it's River Road, does not make it a River Road. It probably isn't. I wouldn't buy it because in my mind someone clearly mixed up the locality somewhere down the line and now it's a generic.

Of course, that's just my thinking and that doesn't prove it's not a River Road either.

Not just your thinking Joe. I concur 100%. The seller may actually believe it to be a river, but that does not make it so.

DB

I have to agree with Joe..

It's a great looking alterna... But, prob not a River Road.

~ Mike

Well, I appreciate everyone's input. I am still inclined to trust the breeder, though.
-----
Diego

Diego & Tiffany's Zoo:
SNAKES
2.4.0 Corn Snakes (Different morphs)
1.1.0 Hypo Everglades Rat Snakes
2.1.0 Baird's Rat Snakes
1.2.0 Trans-Pecos Rat Snakes
1.1.0 Trinket Rat Snake
1.0.0 Japanese Rat Snake
1.1.0 Salt and Pepper Bull Snakes
0.1.0 Amel Pacific Gopher Snake
1.0.0 Het Amel San Diego Gopher Snake
0.1.0 San Diego Gopher Snake
3.2.0 Sonoran Gopher Snakes
0.1.0 Amel Sonoran Gopher Snakes
1.1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake
2.1.0 Gray Banded Kingsnakes (2.1 River Road)
1.0.0 Hypermelanistic California Kingsnake
0.1.0 Albino High White California Kingsnake
0.2.0 California Kingsnakes
1.1.0 Thayeri Kingsnake
0.1.0 Florida Kingsnake
1.1.0 Boa Constrictors
0.1.0 Dumeril's Boa
2.0.0 Rosy Boas (Mexican & Mid Baja)
1.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.1.0 Indonesian Dwarf Pacific Boa
1.1.0 Ball Pythons
1.0.0 Woma Python
1.1.0 Cape York Spotted Pythons
1.1.0 Macklot's Pythons
1.1.0 Western Hognoses
1.1.0 Malagasy Giant Hognoses
1.0.0 Blacktail Cribo

LIZARDS
1.0.0 Frilled Dragon
3.1.0 Bearded Dragons (2 Normal, 1 RedXGold, 1 Citrus)
0.1.0 Eastern Collared Lizard
1.0.0 African Fat-Tail Gecko
0.1.0 Merauke Blue Tongue Skink
1.4.0 Leopard Geckos
1.0.1 Yellow Niger Uromastyx
1.1.0 Chuckwalla
0.1.0 Banded Gecko

FROGS
2.2.0 Southern Bell Frogs
1.0.1 Green Tree Frogs
1.0.0 Bubbling Kassina
1.1.1 White's Tree Frogs
0.0.2 Gold Frogs

It's impossible to know what locality that animal came from without data on the parents. With alterna, each geographic area has parameters for morphological variation that shift along a very broad continuum. While each locality tends to share a number of common traits, there are always animals that push the envelope towards the unusual. That being said, nothing about your animal looks like it could have come from lower Presidio county. The low band count, clean sides, lack of alternates, and smooth-edged bands are all traits very frequently seen in the eastern part of the range, but very rarely out west. If it were a river animal, to say it was an anomaly would be an understatement.

Take the following photos for example (all posted in the photo section of Kingsnake.com's Alterna Page)...all are photos of somewhat typical wild-caught animals from the river road:

Now here's yours for comparison:

Relative to the other animals it's easy to notice the differences. It has a very low band count relative to the river animals pictured above. It has a very clean pattern and virtually no alternates. It's bands are also very smooth... something none of the other River animals display.

Here are some Alterna Page photos of snakes from the eastern part of the range:

While your animal is pretty exceptional in terms of the width of its black, the similarities between it and the previous four examples is pretty apparent... certainly more apparent than any similarity to the animals in the first series. The assortment of Alterna Page photos of WC alterna morphs from Juno and US 277 is a little slim, but maybe those reading this post who have collected alterna morphs in those areas can post photos to further demonstrate the point. Thin-banded light phase alterna morphs show up pretty frequently on 277 and Juno road (which has a river running next to it coincidentally).

In any case, the only thing I can recommend is to contact the dealer who sold you your snake and make inquiries as to where the breeders that produced your snake came from. It's common for people to get confused about what they have considering how many and how frequently locality names are thrown around. If you can't definitively track down the origins, it's impossible to label the critter with a locality. If you can get some names of the folks who the dealer dealt with to acquire his breeders we may be able to help you track down what your animal is.

Wow, thanks Damon. That's a lot of awesome pics and information.

As I posted above, the breeder has all of the records available. I will not meet up with him until September, however. When I asked 2 local snake dealers about this guy, they both said basically the same thing: I've worked with Tim before and he always has quality animals and keeps excellent records.

It really isn't that big of a deal to me. I was curious, so I contacted him. His reply was very timely and professional. I am satisfied with his answer.
-----
Diego

Diego & Tiffany's Zoo:
SNAKES
2.4.0 Corn Snakes (Different morphs)
1.1.0 Hypo Everglades Rat Snakes
2.1.0 Baird's Rat Snakes
1.2.0 Trans-Pecos Rat Snakes
1.1.0 Trinket Rat Snake
1.0.0 Japanese Rat Snake
1.1.0 Salt and Pepper Bull Snakes
0.1.0 Amel Pacific Gopher Snake
1.0.0 Het Amel San Diego Gopher Snake
0.1.0 San Diego Gopher Snake
3.2.0 Sonoran Gopher Snakes
0.1.0 Amel Sonoran Gopher Snakes
1.1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake
2.1.0 Gray Banded Kingsnakes (2.1 River Road)
1.0.0 Hypermelanistic California Kingsnake
0.1.0 Albino High White California Kingsnake
0.2.0 California Kingsnakes
1.1.0 Thayeri Kingsnake
0.1.0 Florida Kingsnake
1.1.0 Boa Constrictors
0.1.0 Dumeril's Boa
2.0.0 Rosy Boas (Mexican & Mid Baja)
1.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.1.0 Indonesian Dwarf Pacific Boa
1.1.0 Ball Pythons
1.0.0 Woma Python
1.1.0 Cape York Spotted Pythons
1.1.0 Macklot's Pythons
1.1.0 Western Hognoses
1.1.0 Malagasy Giant Hognoses
1.0.0 Blacktail Cribo

LIZARDS
1.0.0 Frilled Dragon
3.1.0 Bearded Dragons (2 Normal, 1 RedXGold, 1 Citrus)
0.1.0 Eastern Collared Lizard
1.0.0 African Fat-Tail Gecko
0.1.0 Merauke Blue Tongue Skink
1.4.0 Leopard Geckos
1.0.1 Yellow Niger Uromastyx
1.1.0 Chuckwalla
0.1.0 Banded Gecko

FROGS
2.2.0 Southern Bell Frogs
1.0.1 Green Tree Frogs
1.0.0 Bubbling Kassina
1.1.1 White's Tree Frogs
0.0.2 Gold Frogs

Some of the most knowledgable people in the alterna world are trying to tell you in a nice way that the breeder in question is either mistaken, a liar or a moron. Listen to them.
Nice snake but, not river rd.
Later
Rick

I could not have put that a better way!

Wayne

...that your OPINION is highly appreciated, but it is only that, so stop taking yourself so seriously.

This "liar" and "moron" that you are referring to has over 25 years breeding and collecting Alterna in the field under his belt.

Once again, thanks everyone for your input.
-----
Diego

Diego & Tiffany's Zoo:
SNAKES
2.4.0 Corn Snakes (Different morphs)
1.1.0 Hypo Everglades Rat Snakes
2.1.0 Baird's Rat Snakes
1.2.0 Trans-Pecos Rat Snakes
1.1.0 Trinket Rat Snake
1.0.0 Japanese Rat Snake
1.1.0 Salt and Pepper Bull Snakes
0.1.0 Amel Pacific Gopher Snake
1.0.0 Het Amel San Diego Gopher Snake
0.1.0 San Diego Gopher Snake
3.2.0 Sonoran Gopher Snakes
0.1.0 Amel Sonoran Gopher Snakes
1.1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake
2.1.0 Gray Banded Kingsnakes (2.1 River Road)
1.0.0 Hypermelanistic California Kingsnake
0.1.0 Albino High White California Kingsnake
0.2.0 California Kingsnakes
1.1.0 Thayeri Kingsnake
0.1.0 Florida Kingsnake
1.1.0 Boa Constrictors
0.1.0 Dumeril's Boa
2.0.0 Rosy Boas (Mexican & Mid Baja)
1.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.1.0 Indonesian Dwarf Pacific Boa
1.1.0 Ball Pythons
1.0.0 Woma Python
1.1.0 Cape York Spotted Pythons
1.1.0 Macklot's Pythons
1.1.0 Western Hognoses
1.1.0 Malagasy Giant Hognoses
1.0.0 Blacktail Cribo

LIZARDS
1.0.0 Frilled Dragon
3.1.0 Bearded Dragons (2 Normal, 1 RedXGold, 1 Citrus)
0.1.0 Eastern Collared Lizard
1.0.0 African Fat-Tail Gecko
0.1.0 Merauke Blue Tongue Skink
1.4.0 Leopard Geckos
1.0.1 Yellow Niger Uromastyx
1.1.0 Chuckwalla
0.1.0 Banded Gecko

FROGS
2.2.0 Southern Bell Frogs
1.0.1 Green Tree Frogs
1.0.0 Bubbling Kassina
1.1.1 White's Tree Frogs
0.0.2 Gold Frogs

If he sold that to you as a River Road, he will never be listed on THE Recommended Breeder's List www.kingsnake.com/alterna/breeder.html. And in turn, if you continue the misrepresentation, you won't be listed there either.

All the breeder's on that page go to great lengths to ensure accurate records and keep tight locality breeding.

Saddleman was hunting for alterna back in the early 70's. Me since 1977. That is over 60 years experience between the two of us alone.

FYI, I am done with opinions so I moved on to facts.

Forky

Do me a favor and keep me off any list that has a guy that calls himself "Forky", Forky.

Good day,
-----
Diego

Diego & Tiffany's Zoo:
SNAKES
2.4.0 Corn Snakes (Different morphs)
1.1.0 Hypo Everglades Rat Snakes
2.1.0 Baird's Rat Snakes
1.2.0 Trans-Pecos Rat Snakes
1.1.0 Trinket Rat Snake
1.0.0 Japanese Rat Snake
1.1.0 Salt and Pepper Bull Snakes
0.1.0 Amel Pacific Gopher Snake
1.0.0 Het Amel San Diego Gopher Snake
0.1.0 San Diego Gopher Snake
3.2.0 Sonoran Gopher Snakes
0.1.0 Amel Sonoran Gopher Snakes
1.1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake
2.1.0 Gray Banded Kingsnakes (2.1 River Road)
1.0.0 Hypermelanistic California Kingsnake
0.1.0 Albino High White California Kingsnake
0.2.0 California Kingsnakes
1.1.0 Thayeri Kingsnake
0.1.0 Florida Kingsnake
1.1.0 Boa Constrictors
0.1.0 Dumeril's Boa
2.0.0 Rosy Boas (Mexican & Mid Baja)
1.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.1.0 Indonesian Dwarf Pacific Boa
1.1.0 Ball Pythons
1.0.0 Woma Python
1.1.0 Cape York Spotted Pythons
1.1.0 Macklot's Pythons
1.1.0 Western Hognoses
1.1.0 Malagasy Giant Hognoses
1.0.0 Blacktail Cribo

LIZARDS
1.0.0 Frilled Dragon
3.1.0 Bearded Dragons (2 Normal, 1 RedXGold, 1 Citrus)
0.1.0 Eastern Collared Lizard
1.0.0 African Fat-Tail Gecko
0.1.0 Merauke Blue Tongue Skink
1.4.0 Leopard Geckos
1.0.1 Yellow Niger Uromastyx
1.1.0 Chuckwalla
0.1.0 Banded Gecko

FROGS
2.2.0 Southern Bell Frogs
1.0.1 Green Tree Frogs
1.0.0 Bubbling Kassina
1.1.1 White's Tree Frogs
0.0.2 Gold Frogs

and neither are you.

Forky

I seem to remember this animal being posted the first time around because you were concerned about its locality data. You now have a list of feedback from some very knowledgeable people that have been in this hobby a long time and because it was not what you wanted to hear just tossed a fit. I can see how Rick's post would have touched a nerve with you, but it was the whole unpolished truth.

No offense intended but I think there was no need to give up credibility here. And to top that all off, it was done to defend the person that you called into question in the first place.

Peace, Love and Happy Meals....

Lance

Here is an animal that was sold to me as a River Road animal. I was never able to track down were he came from, so I do not know if it is true. I will only ever use this animal to make generic babies, If I ever breed pure RR animals, they will not come from this male, even though he more closly resembiles a RR animal, than yours do.

I can trace all animals (that I own) that I consider pure locality animals, back to who caught the original animals.
-----
South Texas Herps

No one is doubting you, we are only using hundereeds of years (2 for me) of combined knowledge to doubt the sources of the person who sold you these animals.
-----
South Texas Herps

I would appreceate it (would consider it a personal favor actually) if you could drastically reduce the spaces you are using in your signature. No one really cares what you have, and very few people enjoy scrolling for a minute to get to the bottom of the thread.

Thanks
Mike
-----
South Texas Herps

critiquing screen names and their relevance.

I don't know, I personally find it interesting to see the collection that someone has, helps when you think twice about what someone says about a particular species... gives you an insight into a person and their knowledge. I don't mind scrolling down 5-10 seconds either, I guess I am just not that busy, and I would doubt that in this post, anybody is going to be dishing out any favors.
-----
2.0 Snow Corns
1.4 Normal Corns
1.0 Sunglow Corn
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.2 Creamsicle Corns
0.1 Amelanistic Corns
1.1 Anerythristic A Corns
1.1 Amelanistic San Diego Gophers
0.1 Hypo Sonoran Gopher
1.0 Cape Gopher Het. Albino
1.0 Sunglow Sonoran Gopher
1.0 Southern Pine
1.1 Bull Het. Albino/Axanthic
0.1 Leucistic Texas Rat
0.1 Texas Rat Het. Leucistic
1.1 Everglades Rat Het. Albino
0.1 White Side Everglades Rat
1.0 Yellow Rat
1.1 Grey Rat
1.1 Black Rat (Albino,White Side)
1.0 Albino Striped Cal. King
0.1 Striped Cal. King
0.4 Misc. Cal. King
1.0 Blizzard King
0.2 Cat
0.1 Dog
0.1 Friend
jswanson737@hotmail.com

the only people that it does not bother are the people that have it themselves. when a person posts in a forum often (multiple times a day/week) and you read posts by them it gets really old, really fast scrolling through 30someodd lines of text that include your collection of every thing form frogs to humans to cats and dogs. at the very least only use species, no one, and I mean no one cars how many het for what ever you have. if you want to show off that much, get a stinkin website.
-----
South Texas Herps

Maybe you ought to bring that up to the people who run Kingsnake, I am sure they could put a limit on it, I am guessing had there have been enough complaints, they would have changed it by now.

I am guessing the only ones that DON'T like it, are the ones that DON'T have it... theory works just the same.

Regardless, this isn't really what the post was about in the first place.
-----
2.0 Snow Corns
1.4 Normal Corns
1.0 Sunglow Corn
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.2 Creamsicle Corns
0.1 Amelanistic Corns
1.1 Anerythristic A Corns
1.1 Amelanistic San Diego Gophers
0.1 Hypo Sonoran Gopher
1.0 Cape Gopher Het. Albino
1.0 Sunglow Sonoran Gopher
1.0 Southern Pine
1.1 Bull Het. Albino/Axanthic
0.1 Leucistic Texas Rat
0.1 Texas Rat Het. Leucistic
1.1 Everglades Rat Het. Albino
0.1 White Side Everglades Rat
1.0 Yellow Rat
1.1 Grey Rat
1.1 Black Rat (Albino,White Side)
1.0 Albino Striped Cal. King
0.1 Striped Cal. King
0.4 Misc. Cal. King
1.0 Blizzard King
0.2 Cat
0.1 Dog
0.1 Friend
jswanson737@hotmail.com

Maybe you ought to start a thread about this, leave it up for discussion, allow KS to check into it. Frankly, I can find out alot about a person by reading their list, or if I have ever dealt with them professionally, I can see what else they have and inquire about something completely different that what I would ASSUME they have by just being in for instance the GBK forum.
-----
2.0 Snow Corns
1.4 Normal Corns
1.0 Sunglow Corn
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.2 Creamsicle Corns
0.1 Amelanistic Corns
1.1 Anerythristic A Corns
1.1 Amelanistic San Diego Gophers
0.1 Hypo Sonoran Gopher
1.0 Cape Gopher Het. Albino
1.0 Sunglow Sonoran Gopher
1.0 Southern Pine
1.1 Bull Het. Albino/Axanthic
0.1 Leucistic Texas Rat
0.1 Texas Rat Het. Leucistic
1.1 Everglades Rat Het. Albino
0.1 White Side Everglades Rat
1.0 Yellow Rat
1.1 Grey Rat
1.1 Black Rat (Albino,White Side)
1.0 Albino Striped Cal. King
0.1 Striped Cal. King
0.4 Misc. Cal. King
1.0 Blizzard King
0.2 Cat
0.1 Dog
0.1 Friend

Yikes, 2 hundred years? Haha...
-----
2.0 Snow Corns
1.4 Normal Corns
1.0 Sunglow Corn
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.2 Creamsicle Corns
0.1 Amelanistic Corns
1.1 Anerythristic A Corns
1.1 Amelanistic San Diego Gophers
0.1 Hypo Sonoran Gopher
1.0 Cape Gopher Het. Albino
1.0 Sunglow Sonoran Gopher
1.0 Southern Pine
1.1 Bull Het. Albino/Axanthic
0.1 Leucistic Texas Rat
0.1 Texas Rat Het. Leucistic
1.1 Everglades Rat Het. Albino
0.1 White Side Everglades Rat
1.0 Yellow Rat
1.1 Grey Rat
1.1 Black Rat (Albino,White Side)
1.0 Albino Striped Cal. King
0.1 Striped Cal. King
0.4 Misc. Cal. King
1.0 Blizzard King
0.2 Cat
0.1 Dog
0.1 Friend
jswanson737@hotmail.com

I'll respond to this one, since it's the last nice one before you got your skivvies all wadded up.

I have been very polite up until this point thanking everyone for their opinions and their insight. Heaven forbid that something new should show up or that maybe someone produced a cleaner animal through selective breeding. No, the Alterna Gestapo has seen it all, and by God, done it all. Well congratulations on your experience and your knowledge. Seriously. I mean it. I am very happy for you. It's just too bad you've reached your limit and you can't expand your minds anymore.

I am done here, as I never meant for you all to get so worked up over a little animal that measures less than 10 inches long! Once and for all, have a great day and thank you for your OPINIONS.

P.S.

Nobody's forcing you to scroll down and read my signature. So don't.
-----
Diego

Diego & Tiffany's Zoo:
SNAKES
2.4.0 Corn Snakes (Different morphs)
1.1.0 Hypo Everglades Rat Snakes
2.1.0 Baird's Rat Snakes
1.2.0 Trans-Pecos Rat Snakes
1.1.0 Trinket Rat Snake
1.0.0 Japanese Rat Snake
1.1.0 Salt and Pepper Bull Snakes
0.1.0 Amel Pacific Gopher Snake
1.0.0 Het Amel San Diego Gopher Snake
0.1.0 San Diego Gopher Snake
3.2.0 Sonoran Gopher Snakes
0.1.0 Amel Sonoran Gopher Snakes
1.1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake
2.1.0 Gray Banded Kingsnakes (2.1 River Road)
1.0.0 Hypermelanistic California Kingsnake
0.1.0 Albino High White California Kingsnake
0.2.0 California Kingsnakes
1.1.0 Thayeri Kingsnake
0.1.0 Florida Kingsnake
1.1.0 Boa Constrictors
0.1.0 Dumeril's Boa
2.0.0 Rosy Boas (Mexican & Mid Baja)
1.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.1.0 Indonesian Dwarf Pacific Boa
1.1.0 Ball Pythons
1.0.0 Woma Python
1.1.0 Cape York Spotted Pythons
1.1.0 Macklot's Pythons
1.1.0 Western Hognoses
1.1.0 Malagasy Giant Hognoses
1.0.0 Blacktail Cribo

LIZARDS
1.0.0 Frilled Dragon
3.1.0 Bearded Dragons (2 Normal, 1 RedXGold, 1 Citrus)
0.1.0 Eastern Collared Lizard
1.0.0 African Fat-Tail Gecko
0.1.0 Merauke Blue Tongue Skink
1.4.0 Leopard Geckos
1.0.1 Yellow Niger Uromastyx
1.1.0 Chuckwalla
0.1.0 Banded Gecko

FROGS
2.2.0 Southern Bell Frogs
1.0.1 Green Tree Frogs
1.0.0 Bubbling Kassina
1.1.1 White's Tree Frogs
0.0.2 Gold Frogs

Diego, it would be prudent to not burn bridges at this point. This is not the getula forum and we don't banter here. You have been a very reasonable person on the other forum and I beleive you want to represent your animals honestly. The folks here deal with alterna almost exclusively, and their knowledge has made this forum what it is, nothing short of excellent! They take this species seriously, and take it very seriously. There can be no misrepresentation of the animals here, no locality mixing mislabeled. It would be fair of you to label your animal generic unless you can prove it. And for the record, Forky is a cool name, Fork-Q would be an uncool name! Hope you take this in the spirit it was intended, flame wars are not welcome here. My non locale, generic, store bought alterna who will never breed!
Todd Hughes

I've got nothing more to say/type here, except to apologize for the cheap (and admittedly not very creative) shot at Forky.
Other than that, I've said my peace.

Thanks for looking out, my man.

-----
Diego

Diego & Tiffany's Zoo:
SNAKES
2.4.0 Corn Snakes (Different morphs)
1.1.0 Hypo Everglades Rat Snakes
2.1.0 Baird's Rat Snakes
1.2.0 Trans-Pecos Rat Snakes
1.1.0 Trinket Rat Snake
1.0.0 Japanese Rat Snake
1.1.0 Salt and Pepper Bull Snakes
0.1.0 Amel Pacific Gopher Snake
1.0.0 Het Amel San Diego Gopher Snake
0.1.0 San Diego Gopher Snake
3.2.0 Sonoran Gopher Snakes
0.1.0 Amel Sonoran Gopher Snakes
1.1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake
2.1.0 Gray Banded Kingsnakes (2.1 River Road)
1.0.0 Hypermelanistic California Kingsnake
0.1.0 Albino High White California Kingsnake
0.2.0 California Kingsnakes
1.1.0 Thayeri Kingsnake
0.1.0 Florida Kingsnake
1.1.0 Boa Constrictors
0.1.0 Dumeril's Boa
2.0.0 Rosy Boas (Mexican & Mid Baja)
1.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.1.0 Indonesian Dwarf Pacific Boa
1.1.0 Ball Pythons
1.0.0 Woma Python
1.1.0 Cape York Spotted Pythons
1.1.0 Macklot's Pythons
1.1.0 Western Hognoses
1.1.0 Malagasy Giant Hognoses
1.0.0 Blacktail Cribo

LIZARDS
1.0.0 Frilled Dragon
3.1.0 Bearded Dragons (2 Normal, 1 RedXGold, 1 Citrus)
0.1.0 Eastern Collared Lizard
1.0.0 African Fat-Tail Gecko
0.1.0 Merauke Blue Tongue Skink
1.4.0 Leopard Geckos
1.0.1 Yellow Niger Uromastyx
1.1.0 Chuckwalla
0.1.0 Banded Gecko

FROGS
2.2.0 Southern Bell Frogs
1.0.1 Green Tree Frogs
1.0.0 Bubbling Kassina
1.1.1 White's Tree Frogs
0.0.2 Gold Frogs

Didja get that Joe? Maybe keep an eye on this one, that was a formal apology! Diego, way to be a better man! I know I need to kick back and take a chill pill sometimes! What is great about this forum is the frankness that comes to it and in time I really felt the community here! There might be a few crotchety old farts here, and I feel right at home, lol! All of us should realize that if we ask a question, we might not get the answer we were hoping for, but at least it will be an honest attempt at that answer.
Todd Hughes

Hey Todd,

That beast you posted looks like a RR X Davis Mountain blairs phase alterna -- don't you think?

DOH!!!!

Spring come quick!! We all need to get out in the field.

Cheers, hugh

heheheh, Hugh, you are being much too kind, lol! Spring has sprung down here, hope to make a foray in mid march just to smell the air and see what the REAL Nueces looks like, on my end it is a crime!
Todd Hughes

It is just an opinion, but not just my opinion. It seems to be the opinion of everyone but you and the person who sold the snake to you.
This forum is a place to ask questions and get answers. You can learn a lot from these people, but until you open your mind and listen, you are missing out.
The reason everyone is so concerned is that if you were to breed your snake to something that does look like a RR, you might get some babies that look like RR but are only 1/2. then the unsuspecting person that buys what he think are RR has only a pair of mutts.
Hey Lance, for me, that was polished, LOL.
Later
Rick

I will remember that..

BTW, are you working with Musquiz?

Lance