Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just received Reptiles magazine yesterday and Zoomed has a new substrate that potentially sounds very workable for our uros. I went to the Zoomed site and it is not on the site as of yet. It comes in 5 and 10 pound bags, but it doesn't tell you how much you need for a particular size. Anybody hear of it/used it? Have a great weekend everyone, we are supposed to have another 8-12" of snow on top of the 8" we had last night, so my weekend pretty much is in the dumper.

Pam

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1.1 varanus acanthurus brachyurus (Dorado & Dora)
1.1 u. macfadyeni (Amani & Abeba)
1.2 u. ornata (Husani, Zari, & Bintu)
0.0.1 geochelone carbonaria (Rojo)
0.0.1 cyclura hybrid lewisi x caymanensis x nubila (Sweetpea)
1.1 hyla chrysoscelis (Pudge & Squirt)
Herps Are Awesome!

That looks very promising.
The only problem I see in letting the animals create tunnels and burrows is being able to monitor them during extended periods..like brumation or hunger strikes..
Do you destroy their lair? Or just go on faith that they are okay....I'm so paranoid when I haven't seen my uros in a couple of days....
That said, anything that has the potential of being more like a natural state is always interesting.
Ed

>>I just received Reptiles magazine yesterday and Zoomed has a new substrate that potentially sounds very workable for our uros. I went to the Zoomed site and it is not on the site as of yet. It comes in 5 and 10 pound bags, but it doesn't tell you how much you need for a particular size. Anybody hear of it/used it? Have a great weekend everyone, we are supposed to have another 8-12" of snow on top of the 8" we had last night, so my weekend pretty much is in the dumper.
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>>Pam
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>>
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>>1.1 varanus acanthurus brachyurus (Dorado & Dora)
>>1.1 u. macfadyeni (Amani & Abeba)
>>1.2 u. ornata (Husani, Zari, & Bintu)
>>0.0.1 geochelone carbonaria (Rojo)
>>0.0.1 cyclura hybrid lewisi x caymanensis x nubila (Sweetpea)
>>1.1 hyla chrysoscelis (Pudge & Squirt)
>>Herps Are Awesome!
>>

Hi Pam,
There was a large pet industry tradeshow in Orlando this week and I spoke with the President of ZooMed about it. They had a tank with a desert iguana on display setup with this substrate. It feels pretty hard to the touch after it dries but I'm definitely going to experiment with it and see if uros are able to make burrows in it. It certainly resembles some of the baked clay-soil habitat I've seen in Afican photos of uromastyx. I don't know if there will be some sort of new "cleaning issues" to deal with. Unfortunately the largest size right now is 10 pounds. Let me know off-forum if you want me to get some to you - hopefully several of us can report results back to the group later.
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Lindsay Pike
Urotopia Uromastyx

something like the Europeans have been using for years for Uromastyx. THey use a clay based substrate that dries hard and the lizards are able to burrow in. Believe it or not uros are fairly clean animals. If fed properly their feces is very firm and in the form of pellets so cleaning doesn't seem to be an issue for this type of substrate. This definately would not work for pigs such as chuckwallas whose feces seems to be more liquid and they smear it everywhere. I think it wouls work ok other than being able to access the animals as Artgeckoe says. It is very natual looking. When they dig I wonder how dusty it is? A very big problem with natural substrates for thoiose that keep animals in the house. I still like the aspen bedding. I have used this for years with uromastyx with no problems at all even withbabies. I use the finer shredded stuff for the babies and the heavier shaved/chipped type fpor the adults. No smell, no dust and easy to clean. Also very light in weight which is important for those who have a lot of cages. Please let us know what you guys think. Tom

Tom's posting photos of his superior evolved chuckwallas - the ones the spiny tails. It must still be winter up North.
The ZooMed setup I saw (and touched)wasn't dusty, but it had probably just been created a few days prior. We'll see if this stuff gets dusty after a while. I experimented with clay/sand/soil mixtures several years ago and there were many qualities I liked. But your right, some combinations did produce bad dust in the room. I also found you could also create one big 'ol rock if the clay component was too high and it baked just right.
Lindsay

I saw that too and was looking the the lllreptile site and they have a 25 pound bag. I want to try it for my uros, leopard geckos, and my ackie
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Steve Irwin you changed the way people look at reptiles forever. Crocodile Hunter you will be missed.

>>....site and they have a 25 pound bag. I want to try it for my uros, leopard geckos, and my ackie
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They must be just selling a 2-10 lb 1-5 lb bundle because ZooMed swears there is no such thing as a 25# bag. I hope they do come out with a larger size.

I'll setup a small demo tank with it at the Tampa show March 10-11 if anyone wants to see what it's like.
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Lindsay Pike
Urotopia Uromastyx

Clay is not much usable for monitors. Not sure what they did to the clay but I doubt it's something we want to use.

I agree with MikeT. He knows what hes talking about. The monitor dudes have been using dirt for a longer time (i think) than the uro dudes.

I know that clay isnt too good for them as in it doesnt breath. It is also a big no no when egg laying. It will suffocate the eggs. I have not had that happen with monitor eggs (havent gotten any yet) but i have had that happen to some native lizards and other agamas.

Clay does hold a burrow well, but there are many other good dirt out there for free. Just dig it up hahaha. There are much more things to dirt than just "is it dusty?" or "will i be able to monitor them?". I am not saying not monitoring them is bad (you need to do that to take care of them). But letting them feel safe and get away from you and anyone else who is looking at them is much better.

Plus on the other hand, how many 10lb bags will you have to buy to get enough of that stuff so that your uro will be able to burrow in it? I would say atleast 1 ft? With my reptiles, thats two wheel barrows of dirt for a 18 in by 42 in cage. Thats a lot of dirt hahaha.

But dont take my word for it, test it. Plus ask Robyn at PE what he thinks. I havent talked to him yet, but i have a feeling that he says the same.

P.S. HI PAM! (pgross### ) I got some more storrs monitors. I just love the one i got from you (even though hes all jacked up). Now that i see what they can do with claws they are awesome!

cheers,
Sean

Hi Sean,

Glad he is doing well for you. How many do you have? Are they together? Hope you get some nice babies sometime in the future! Take care, see you over on the other forum...

Pam
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1.1 varanus acanthurus brachyurus (Dorado & Dora)
1.1 u. macfadyeni (Amani & Abeba)
1.2 u. ornata (Husani, Zari, & Bintu)
0.0.1 geochelone carbonaria (Rojo)
0.0.1 cyclura hybrid lewisi x caymanensis x nubila (Sweetpea)
1.1 hyla chrysoscelis (Pudge & Squirt)
Herps Are Awesome!

That is exactly what I said to myself when I saw the ad. If that stuff remains workable after several days, then it is not truly clay based. Believe me, I know what clay is like. Most soils here in Arkansas-and a lot of the southeast-are full of it. It is slimy when moist, and will dry rock-hard (a lot of our soil is full of dirt-clods). And if it does manage to dry without hardening, then it no longer holds a burrow (I tried it on my ackies). As mentioned by sungazer, it breathes extremely poorly. I'd say that it has pretty much all of the qualities you should NOT look for in your soil.

Something I have pondered over was if the soils in Africa really are clay based. Most uro keepers claim that they are, and yet Robyn comes along with his clay-absent decomposed rock based soil and the uros (and monitors, and gilas) go crazy on it. It also contradicts with what most keepers of African monitors (like albigularis) reccommend, which is an inorganic soil with low levels of clay. So what is you guy's allure to the clay? It holds burrows well? Most soils will hold burrows well, but that is more dependent on moisture levels than the soil type.

Oh, and whoever made the comments on the dustiness, yeah, most soils do become dusty after they dry out. That is why you must add more water. Finding the proper moisture levels-which should actually vary in the cage-is just a whole other part of the soil puzzle.

Sorry, I don't really know where all that came from. I guess it was out of boredom...

Cheers,
Ryan
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