Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My sister and I were arguing wether or not it was ok to feed live mammals to ball pythons. I totally disagree and the picture from proexotics made even more of a believer. My sister, however thinks it is ok to. What are your thoughts? Any responses aprecciated.

Anthony

I think live uneaten mouse or rat can inflict serious wounds on snakes...especially if they're hungry they can start chewing on them. I've seen pictures of boas that have been viciously attacked and have chuncks of flesh bitten out...causing deformed mouth. It's not a pretty sight. If this ever happened in the wild, probably not very often because the preys are probably are caught by surprised and are killed immediately. If left in the cage, they may learn that the snake isn't very hungry and not a threat to them and may proceed in biting and eating it if it's hungry. And the rodents put in the cage have a chance to snif and learn that there is a predator in there and intentionally prepare itself for an attack; thus, biting the snake, inflicting serious wound--which may kill the snake. Another reason I don't like feeding live preys is because it causes unecessary pain and suffering to the preys. Almost any snakes can be trained to eat dead prey items, so why do you want to cause it any pain when you can avoid it. It's all about compassion...always think with compassion.

I have had Rachel for over a year and a half now (it will be two years in October). I had read the "discussions" about NOT feeding live, and I fed f/t for a while (f/t=fresh/thawed); until she went over FIVE months WITHOUT eating! I have been told that is "normal" for balls to do, but until you experience it yourself, you just don't know how disturbing it is!
We broke her fast when my husband (who had NEVER heard this silly argument) brought home a live mouse. Me, being desperate to feed my poor girl I KNEW she was hungry, so I fed it to her. I didn't leave her until she had the mouse (which didn't live to see the 31st second after she was put in her feeding enclosure).
Someone had the good sense to post these common sense rules:
1) NEVER leave the snake alone, unwatched with live prey
2) NEVER leave the mouse/rat in the enclosure WITH the snake for ANY length of time! I am talking anything over five minutes! (Even THAT may be too long) If your snake doesn't take the prey inside two minutes, IT IS NOT HUNGRY!!!
3) NEVER feed a snake that is NOT hungry!
Rachel NEVER leaves prey alive longer than a minute EVEN DURING A SHED!!! I ONLY feed her when she shows signs of hunting in her tank. I NEVER leave her alone till the prey stops kicking, and I ALWAYS watch her strike and wrap to make sure she HAS it!
I am sure if I leave a mouse/rat in with a snake for a couple of days with no food (other than the snake) the poor rodent would eat MY snake too! I am NOT that stupid!
So the short of it is, YES, your sister is right, you CAN feed live. Just don't be stupid and leave the rodent/snake combination alone! PERIOD!

I mean the captive borned will take dead mice...but you're right...the wild caughts are harder to get it fed on dead mice or rats. It takes a lot of patience to train them to eat, and some people are discourage by that...a lot of the times the ball pythons prefer gerbils and hamsters. So it's hard to train it to eat the dead mice or rat without having to rub the sent of the gerbils and hamsters on it. I think for this reason you should stun your mice or rat, but make sure that the snake is really hungry; otherwise, you end up with a rodent who is really in pain, and then if you don't know how to put it down...you can have a situation on your hand. I find that if you feed it in the cage, putting the dead prey in the cage, the snakes will be more willing to eat it in the security of the cage.

I also agree that it is okay to feed live. In general, if the snake is hungry and strikes right away, there is little chance of injury to the snakey.

Injury can still happen. I have a hatchling that is not the best @ striking and would strike and miss. She is a tough one because she is not trained on dead food yet but is so piss poor at striking and wrapping.

My other BP have no trouble wrapping the prey. I would still like to get them to eat F/T but it has been a long process.

It is okay to feed live as long as you are smart about it and take all the possible precautions that ladyball mentioned. Some snakeys just won't eat dead. Still, I believe that the most ideal is to feed f/t, but that is not always going to work.

The way I get my BP to eat f/t prey is either heating it and seeing if I can get a strike and wrap or I follow the foot of the live prey: ie when the bp is about done swallowing the live mouse, I put the head of the f/t rat into the bp mouth.

here is a pic of the first rat I ever got my male to eat. BP had to swallow a live mouse first before the rat followed.

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Longtang. I like snakes and rats.

I prefer to feed my snakes frozen thawed. One because it is safer. I have witnessed a snake strike and wrap it's prey very fast but still get bitten in the process, just because of how he wraped. Two, because it is CHEAPER. Rats in pet stores are expensive.

Currently I have an adult male BP that will NOT touch a frozen thawed or even pre-killed rat. I am trying my darndest to get him switched over but so far, I am not having any luck. I also have a Honduran milksnake that gets weird on me occasionally and will only eat live. She'll take all the F/T you can give her as chasers to the live but refuses to take a f/t in the beginning. They both strike pretty fast but BOTH have been bitten, just because of the way they wrapped the prey. It only takes a second for a mouse or rat to bite. And even one bite can cause a serious infection.

I know what it is like to watch your snake, go without eating for several months BUT I have also seen first hand the damage that can be done by a live mouse or rat. Frozen thawed really is the best way to go. Sometimes all it takes is to start stunning them just a little more each time, sometimes it takes longer and other methods but I have seen even the most stubborn feeders eventually switch over.
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