Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Does anyone know or dealt with these new sources that are flooding on KS classified and how reliable are they? (money now, animal later?)

I am one of those reliable sources. I visit the forum from time to time and thought I'd reply. I only see us and another party selling them thus far, so I think it only appears to be a "flood", but there isn't a flood of them coming into the U.S. I believe there is only 15 total coming and we have already received a deposit for 2.3. Let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks,
Barry
Spectrum Reptiles

These kinds of tortoise have problems when imported, they do not do good as imports, i wold never spend that much, especially since they are full of parisites and have a good chance of not making it.

You are VERY correct. EXCEPT, as you may or may not have seen in the ad, The ones that we are receiving are captive bred and hatched animals from a facility outside their native range and are NOT wild caughts.

Barry

I was not talking about your ad, lol, I did not even see the ad, i was just replying toward the 15 imported a year.. or something

CB is deffinently the best way to go...

the question is whether, if impressa are imported from a 'non-range' country elsewhere in Asia (as these are being shipped from Indonesia, apparently), are they truly captive bred ? Not easy to tell if they are close to adult size, and if they are not truly cb, their life expectancy is not long.....

these have been offered before from malaysia and are called cb but arent... The only true breedings in asia are food turtles in china but not impressed.. Impressed have over 90% death rate as imports, babies or long term adults..

Brian

These certainly not the kind of tortoises for everyone (including some past experts!)

I was approached by probably the same source that BrianL had mentioned a few years back and wondering if any of those imports still around today, and also their food source was a major problem where I was. The question I have now is how geniune are these new (or same?) bloodlines or is it better to stick with a handful impressas that already here in US soil.

Thank you all who repplied!
T. Tu.

If you are going to import tortoises this is the way to do it. We are talking 10 to 15 animals here. They are being offered at a price that I would think only the most serious keeper is going to get involved.

Any keeper that shells out that kind of bucks is going to go to the extreme to keep them alive. I would think this would increase their odds of survival in the captive population and in so doing add to the limited bloodline already present in the US.

The person importing them knows their record for survival even for captive animals of this species so they want to 'turn' them as quick as possible. This, again, increases the odds of survival because they should be getting the specialized care that they normally would not get from the importer. The importer is also not going to sell them to anyone as CB if they are obviously not or if they are in any shape that would tarnish their reputation.

These are very high profile animals at the moment and I would not be surprised if there is yet another species that is banned from import into the US. Like I said, if you are going to import any species for the pet trade or whatever I would think this is the way to do it... a very limited number at a respectable price.
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

What I was saying is that these are the same group that was offered before out of malaysia and they arent c.b. These guys wants a deposit before they even know what the animals look like. Are they going to refund the money when they get here and arent c.b.? Or if they do soon after the buyer gets them?

I think its up to these guys to prove them c.b. with photos of these hatching 4 or 5 years ago?

Anyway, just thoughts. There are c.b. babies produced here and for much less.

I don't know what was offered years ago or if these are the same group. I don't think anyone is being asked to buy these sight unseen.

I'm also saying this is a unique opportunity. Of course, the more hands these tortoises touch the more risk the buyer is taking but even still, on this deal, I think the risk is minimal.
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

I don't think it's up to anyone to prove anything. If you don't trust them don't buy them. It's totally your choice.
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

youre right.. i do hope these go on to live and reproduce..

I didnt want to take the chance before, but good that someone else is..

good luck.. whoever imports them or buys them keep us updated..

Just to add - my guess is that if US Fish and Wildlife folks are monitoring the classified, they will know immediately that the impressa are not truly captive bred (as opposed to captive hatched) and if originating in a country where they naturally occur (which is apparently the case here), there may be confiscations pending and some very sorry buyers and importers. As there should be....

looks like we gonna get some of these in a not so distant future if your prediction are true...

Wait a second....Who says that wild caught impressa can't be imported anyway and only CH ones can?

actually they shut downw impressed now...

These will probably be the last ones in..

Brian

Hi Brian,

I don't doubt that....Where did you get that info?

Thanks,
Barry

i was told by someone who imports from asia and an exporter told them.. So you may well have the last legal impressed to come in my friend.. good luck..

Brian

I hope this works out for Barry,but what are the chanches their CB or CH. Human nature being what it is why would someone go to all this time and trouble to raise them all this time when they could just steel natures turtles and say their CB or what ever.People in other countries say animals are captive born if that is required.Check the shippments travel and you will see they went to Switzerland Denmark Russia and places where US rules dont mean a thing .If it must be captive bred then put that on the papers"sinzs the papers" You would be suprised were this stuff goes first.As soon as these animals start fetching a high price they start showing up. Untill the CB impressa showed up,no one cared about smugguling impressa.We have seen it with pancakes.A few were CB a few years back and then all of a sudden there were ADULT CB pancakes being sold at CB only shows all over the country! There were NONE for sale for a decade,Then "what $1000 $750 hummmm Hundreds followed.These Impressa are supsect because of resent laget,CB babies offered for the first time two years ago.This has been going on sence 1974 when CITES began,and it will continue just like drugs."the lure of easy money has a world wide appeal" *Smuggulars blues D Hindly Eagles 1980 something.Next you will see the gravid females smuggled in and eggs oxed out and incubated to legal US captive born.The criminal mind is a work at this now because of the huge return.Whats a Impressa cost at a food market...1 tort.5 eggs x 50.....Ca Ching.Manouria Impressa is the Fijian banded Iguana Brachylophus fasciatus of the 2000's "Best i've ever seen"on a price list comming soon. Slim Shady

So far the ones I have seen in the pics of the ads do not look CB to me. I am judging this by studying the growth lines and carapacial condition. One of the animals does appear to be a long term captive. It has "undercut" growth lines that appear to be recent. I have seen truely CB impressa that were born and raised in the US. The price is better when you buy babies that were born here and you know 100% you are getting CB animals. What facility overseas (outside of their native range?) was breeding and hatching impressa six years ago or so and then raising them up to adulthood to be sold? They are hard enough for expert turtle breeders in the US to hatch out or keep alive.
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Michael
http://turtletracker.com

Hello Barry,

Thank you for your reply! Do you know off hand (those "Limited CB" that are coming) what are they feeding on or are they any differs than the WC which rely heavily on a particular exotic diet? My other question if this is your first with this source of supplier and what sort of guarantee you have for your asking price?

Thanks.
T.Tu.

Yes, this is my first time dealing with this source, so we'll see. I will represent them according and the way I truly see them. If they are obvious wild caughts that are doing great, I'll post that in the new ad when they get here. If they are light as a feather, I won't sell them. If they are truly CB & CH, then I'll state that as well. As for their diets, They do need to eat a decent quantity of oyster mushrooms. Even the babies produced here in the states require that. Their diet is fairly strict from what I've been told. We'll see. I'll know more when they get here and will post info and guarantees accordingly. Thanks for asking.

Barry
Spectrum Reptiles

My understanding now is that the impressa are coming from Malaysia, which IS a RANGE country for that species. In fact conservation work is going on there for impressa. This means that even if they are captive hatched, it's like importing aldabras from Aldabra.....one just doesn't do that ethically. It also opens up CITES issues that the dealers should strongly consider.....

You are correct about impressa coming from Malaysia and I've recently discovered that. However, where I disagree with you is that they shouldn't be imported. The impressa will come with CITES documents and be 100% legal. Ed (EJ) is absolutely correct about his take on all this. I have a close friend who visits China on a regular basis and he informed me that there were many impressa available for sale in the meat markets. Personally, I think as many as possible should be brought into the U.S. in hopes of succssful captive breedings, having a diverse gene pool, and relieving wild populations which mostly go for food and very minimally go to the pet trade.

There are only two gentleman in the private sector that I know of who are producing them and while the ones coming in will be costly, so are the ones here and rightfully so. I'm all for conservation, but I've also been outspoken on the fact that we (us tortoise people) better get some in our hands before they dissapear, and any window of aquiring them and saving them is lost. Our lovely govt. could stop the importation and then these beautiful animals will be doomed to land in a soup bowl.

Barry

...one more time!!!

I agree completely that we badly need to figure out how to breed these guys and establish a captive breeding population. But imports, 90% of which will die within a year of arrival, just deplete the natural populations. Rescues from food markets are a worthwhile project, but we all know that some species are endangered as much because of the pet trade as by the food market.

See, that's the delima. Yes, in the past most have came into the US in poor condition. I'm taking a gamble that most people won't and buying most, if not, all that are coming in based off the information I've received about their current condition. In a perfect world, they would all come in nice, bright eyed, and bushy tailed, but they just don't. Please don't take this the wrong way, but are you willing to spend thousands to take that chance? Probably not and that's ok. My love for the animals is first. I've been doing my own little P&L lately as a hobbyist and the profit of sales I generate don't even cover my food, water, and electric bill for the animals. I'm in the red every month. If I were a greedy businessman, I would have dropped this idea a LONG time ago and glad I don't have to rely on reptiles to pay my bills...HA HA....

As for animal species being endangered by the pet trade as much as by the food market, I would have to completely disagree with that. Only a VERY small fraction of animals are sent to the pet trade. I would venture to guess (I know there is figures and stats, and seen it, but don't remember), but I recall seeing about 75-80% of the animals going to the food market and for skins (ie: monitors, lizards, etc) and VERY small percentage going to the pet trade. I can only imagine some of the beautiful Cuora species sitting in baskets for food, yet our govt. won't allow it into the US. I could go on and on about the politics of it all, but will save my rant. Thanks for listening...

Barry
Spectrum Reptiles

In this case we are talking 15 animals going to hobbyists who are very passionate about a particular species. They are not restricted by imposed budgets or political agendas.

Natural populations are being depleated by overpopulation and not the pet trade.

Mass marketing should not occur but I don't see anything wrong with placing any species in the hands of a person who is give everything into the passion.
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

I know the men that you think produced impressa but in actuality there has only been one woman that has had these successes in breeding them(from what I know of she is one of the only people in the world to produce them and I look forward to her paper on their husbandry). Both of these men have animals on breeding loan with her. I really thought hard and long about picking up one of the large groups of these guys...until I saw the photos! I highly doubt that any of these animals are captive bred. I will leave that expensive lesson to another to learn. However, if you have any supporting documentation of their cb status with photos to support the claims..I am always willing to listen. Good Luck

Michael W. Hance
One of my two year old impressas

For that price, wild caughts that are doing great would not be a good deal. I sincerely hope for your sake and your customers that you get true CB adults.
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Michael
http://turtletracker.com

Not sure if your referring to me as one of these "new sources", but I've been around awhile and have already sold some of the impressa based off a deposit. If something goes wrong and I cannot get the tortoises, the I refund the money back promptly and in full. Simple as that. Also not sure what you meant by "flooding" kingsnake. There are only two guys offering them and I'm one of them.

Barry
Spectrum Reptiles

... and it's sounding more like your local "Recycler" don't you think?

Those current ads on KS are differs than the ones before (07') and definitely not from their breeders on here and already one is trashing the other-half as middleman so what are you? Sure there are many things that's been around until now ( just look at them massive hybrid vehicles on the road today...) Anyway, it's all about the animals here we're talking about (minus the bulls I would hope) so don't take it too personal ! Thanks and best of luck!

To Tu.

You lost me.....I don't self promo. I just give facts as I get them. If that ignites any sort of weird feelings or jealousy, I can't help that.

Barry