Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I sold a couple of '06 males to a woman several months ago. Aparently, she had them eating live mice, but despite my recommendations had the two housed together. She fed one of the two yesterday I believe, and found it dead this morning. She described it as "dried up". She said the other snake is showing the same symptoms as the one who died. She is e-mailing me back in regards to the obvious questions, but I am leaning on poisoning, as a diagnosis. Any other ideas?
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Thanks,
Amy
www.myboids.4t.com
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1.14 Normal ball pythons
1.0 Pastel ball pythons
0.0.1 Sinaloan Milk Snake
0.0.1 Plains Garter
0.1 Normal Kenyan Sand Boa
2.0 Anery Kenyan Sand Boa
1.0 Mid-Baja Rosy Boa
0.1 Leucistic Texas Rat
1.2 Dumeril's Boa
1.2 BCI
That's Just The Snakes!

she bought the baby balls.....SHE should know how and what to do......you are not obligated if they were eating and healthy when you sold them........people have no idea how to care for snakes.....really.......I guarentee my snakes are good when they are sold........people are on their own after that....and yes I have had them kill a snake and bring it back into the show an hour later after cooking it in the car.....people suck.....and we cannot go to their homes and check out their setups to make sure they are doing all correctly.......

as for dried up looking.......she probably has them in low humidity and not watering them correctly ? maybe low temps too......weak snakes that eat can die.......but if it was feeding.it shouldn't die for months from lack of food and week or two from no water......I have never had a ball python regurge........I have seen weak snakes that have not eaten to the breaking point die overnight when they are finally fed.......

......good luck...............
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I try to do my best to educate people before they leave with one of my animals, but sometimes I wonder how I can better get through to people! The above owner has obviously not followed my recommendations in the care of her animals...but I'm not sure what led to the death of the animal. Now I am thinking overheating/complications to high heat!? Here is her e-mail:

>I have been using water from our well. Its the same water I cook and take a
>bath in. I soaked him because of the bad shed and he seemed to do better but
>than he just dried out again. He ate the mouse and then just kept getting
>dryer and I told you about how he had the dry skin all over him. I soaked him
>and he lost some of it. They would not get in the humidity box. We had a ceramic heat
>source over 1/2 of the cage on top of the screen with a large water bowl, big
>enough for them to swim in, in the middle of the cage so the heat source kept
>the water warm. That's why I don't understand the bad shed. They have 24/7
>access to a swimming pool. Last night after I handled him, when I looked back he
> was hanging over the water with his neck in it like he was going to swim. I
>thought he would be OK. This morning I found him laying on his back.
>
> I bought my mice at the pet food center. They are still alive, except for
>one that disappeared and one I found dried up in the cage. The rest are preg
>for feeders
>
>I took the heat source away and just used a wet wash cloth to remove old
>shed from the big guy(other remaining snake) and he
>doesn't look so bad. I will keep you posted

I'd love some input on this so I can help this owner better care for her remaining pet. I asked her to check the temps. and use a UTH once things get settled. Hopefully, the other snake will make it. FYI These are fully established hatchlings too one was 200 grams the other 350. They were very well fed prior to their sale! Breeders, what do you guys do to ensure that potential owners understand the care requirements?! I give out a very detailed caresheet, but I don't know if people realize the importance of even basic husbandry!
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Thanks,
Amy
www.myboids.4t.com
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1.14 Normal ball pythons
1.0 Pastel ball pythons
0.0.1 Sinaloan Milk Snake
0.0.1 Plains Garter
0.1 Normal Kenyan Sand Boa
2.0 Anery Kenyan Sand Boa
1.0 Mid-Baja Rosy Boa
0.1 Leucistic Texas Rat
1.2 Dumeril's Boa
1.2 BCI
That's Just The Snakes!

Sounds to me like she cooked them It's too bad she didn't try to contact you when she started thinking there might be a problem - very sad
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Tosha

A ceramic heat source is WAY overkill for ball pythons, especially since they need belly heat, not overhead heat. Does she have a temp gauge in there?

Also, putting water bowl on the same side as the heater - her snakes are having to choose between being a nice temperature or drinking, and they are choosing to be as cool as they can.

My vote is with Tosha, sounds like she cooked her snakes. Tell the woman to get rid of the ceramic heat source, ASAP, and invest in a UTH.

Good luck, and I'm sorry to hear that animals you produced are suffering

~Jenny
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1.2.2 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, Periscope, and dah bebbies)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 mice (Cute Girl Mousy)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
0.0.1 chupacabra (it ate our chickens)

jenny.thegreenes.org

I agree, and recommended she remove the CHE. She also felt that overheating was a problem. She says she is going to pick up a UTH today, lets hope that everything works out well for the remaining snake! Maybe I should quiz some of these people before they leave my house haha...only "A's" get to leave with a snake!
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Thanks,
Amy
www.myboids.4t.com
----
1.14 Normal ball pythons
1.0 Pastel ball pythons
0.0.1 Sinaloan Milk Snake
0.0.1 Plains Garter
0.1 Normal Kenyan Sand Boa
2.0 Anery Kenyan Sand Boa
1.0 Mid-Baja Rosy Boa
0.1 Leucistic Texas Rat
1.2 Dumeril's Boa
1.2 BCI
That's Just The Snakes!

On the serious side that is actually a good idea

ceramic heater = dryness

heated water......how can snake take a cool drink if it is heated......and how can it cool off or swim if heated....

....well water........me too......

tank and screen lid....dry

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tell them cypress mulch at least and keep it moist yet now wet.....

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"I bought my mice at the pet food center. They are still alive, except for
>one that disappeared and one I found dried up in the cage. The rest are preg
>for feeders "

The mice are still alive~
EXCEPT an escapee and ONE FOUND DRIED UP IN THE CAGE
?????
It has to be an oven in that cage
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Cheryl Marchek
AKA JM
The Red Dragons Den
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons~ for you are Crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!

People wonder why morphs , or what we call visuals now are so expensive, people wonder why we would go out and spend $700 dollars on a rack sysytem with built in heating sytem, they wonder why we treat are animals better the gold that is ket at fort knox, its simple because we actually have a appreciation and love for the hobby and those who dont have it should just go out and buy gold fish, keeping these beautiful ball pythons is not like keeping plants.

Ask your self what is the # 1 killer of reptiles ? STRESS !!!! And housing the two together can be and is stressful . I am dealing with a similar problem but the lady had one ball and got one I sold to her and she put them in the same tank ,both were eating prier to being put together and have since stopped .I told her to separate them but she said that’s not the problem and I told here well if you know so much then why ask me . People just don’t listen !! Thanks David of DS Reptile Rescue

Thanks for the input! David, you are right!
Luckily for the other snake, she recognizes now that it was too hot in the tank, hopefully she will use a heat pad instead and get a thermometer! Arg!

On a positive note: one week to clutch one (first of the season), two weeks until clutch two! I've got to get my incubator ready as these girls are huge!
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Thanks,
Amy
www.myboids.4t.com
----
1.14 Normal ball pythons
1.0 Pastel ball pythons
0.0.1 Sinaloan Milk Snake
0.0.1 Plains Garter
0.1 Normal Kenyan Sand Boa
2.0 Anery Kenyan Sand Boa
1.0 Mid-Baja Rosy Boa
0.1 Leucistic Texas Rat
1.2 Dumeril's Boa
1.2 BCI
That's Just The Snakes!

The best advice i give to people inquiring about their first purchase of a snake is to first read all you can about them or the particular kind you want to own and then read again about what type of enclosure you will need to house the snake or snakes, you also have to look at your lifestyle or family lifestyle, your wife or girlfreind may not like that 11 tube rack in the corner or that you feed your pets live mice and rats, and after all of the above mentioned you still must have these beatiful ball pythons than you truely are a herper.

Yes Yes Yes !!!! Luckily my family are in love with all animals but my wife would go before my reptiles !!. GOOD LUCK WITH ALL YOU DO David of DS Reptile Rescue

Amy,

This is part of selling snakes unfortunately, it sounds to me that you did all you could do at the point of sale. I would be willing to bet that the ceramic heat that was being supplied was getting the tank way too hot and thus causing the animals to dehydrate. I’m always surprised when someone will pay hundreds of dollars and even more for a snake, but won’t spend ten dollars on a thermometer???
At this point there isn’t anything you can do for the animal that died, but I agree with you that you need to try to help your customer with the animal that is left. It sounds like they already took the ceramic heat off, which I believe was the problem to begin with. But keep giving advice and do your best to save the remaining animal. Keep us posted, Brian (BHB)

Thanks,

I will definetly keep you guys updated! The customer actually drove for 5 hours (one way) to pick up the snakes...it is amazing to me that the simplest things are often ignored! It sounds like she is on the right track now...too bad she learned her lesson the hard way!
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Thanks,
Amy
www.myboids.4t.com
----
1.14 Normal ball pythons
1.0 Pastel ball pythons
0.0.1 Sinaloan Milk Snake
0.0.1 Plains Garter
0.1 Normal Kenyan Sand Boa
2.0 Anery Kenyan Sand Boa
1.0 Mid-Baja Rosy Boa
0.1 Leucistic Texas Rat
1.2 Dumeril's Boa
1.2 BCI
That's Just The Snakes!

Its amazing what alittle reading can do for a person before they purchase a animal education is the most important part of this hobby and people still overlook that and the snakes are the ones who always loose.