Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I for one would really like to be able to discuss rock pythons more frequently. More and more breeders are beginning to produce them, and I will be producing many this coming season and every season after that from here on out. So in short,. it is certainly going to be a more popular pet python in the months to come, numbers-wise. Where will people go to discuss them and learn more about them and share ideas?

I understand completely that is will be easier to simply add a rock python forum than to disolve the burm, the retic and the anaconda forums in order to form a new giant constrictors forum. While most of us that voted would prefer such a forum it is just not as feasible. But I for one would readily accept a rock python forum rather than nothing at all if I had to choose. I urge everyone with an opinion on this to please share your thoughts on the matter. I don't want it to just fizzle out and become forgotten.

I will be posting some new pictures of some of my patternless rock python breeders and some of my hybrid burm/rock breeders here real soon.
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It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

I have mixed feelings on this subject. It seems like we have way too many specialized forums and for folks like me, we just don't have time to poke in all of the different forums. Burms, rocks, 'condas, and retics could easily fall into a "Giant Constrictor" Forum, however, most posts would get immediately buried by the countless pics that get posted (and it isn't that I don't enjoy pics, I do very much). So, as you said, a "Rock" forum would probably be the best alternative....personally, though, until we someday see consistently tame rocks being produced, I sure wouldn't want to start advocating them to be kept as pets (in my experiences, they are certainly the most aggressive of the giant species...perhaps comparable to green anacondas). As we keep adding forums, I think the pool of knowledgeable contributors begins to be watered down....you don't see nearly as many top knotch folks contributing as in past years.

Rob Carmichael, Director/Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
City of Lake Forest Parks & Recreation (IL)

Hey Rob, good to see you in here, as always,...

You know, I agree with a lot of what you said here. But try to not generalize too much based on the rocks that you have seen and make a blanket statement that rocks are "the most aggressive of the python species". Every one of my rocks are very tame and docile and I intend on selling only tame offspring and in turn raising the tamest of the tame to produce even tamer rocks in the future. The same goes with my ceylonese. They have a bad rap too, and I can also see why,. they can be pretty psycho, lol,... but I still think it's a bad rap and based on misunderstood and poorly raised individuals. I only have one aggressive ceylonese and she came to me this way as a sub. She was poorly raised by a woman that was afraid of her. With both of the above species I have noticed that many people that have kept them become afraid of their snake the first sign of aggression and simply give up on them. The result, a snake that matures with little to no human interaction. Now,.. the rocks are really in a catagory all their own, lol, and they put on a lot of bluff and feigned aggression so as to intimidate. It means little and is just their way. I think this is commonly misunderstood and the above scenario of folks taking this to heart and giving up out of fear occurs. But it's really just a rock being a rock. And I think once this is widely known and understood, then it will be a lot easier for people to keep them. As even tame rocks do this (comical to me) behavior, I intend on writing up detailed care sheets and including all information about what they are doing and how best to deal with it. I will also have a 24 hour hotline for all customers. Why? Not as much to help the owner directly as much as to ensure that the snakes themselves recieve the best of care and a darn good home. To me nothing less is acceptable. It's the snakes I am most concerned with and most especially the rocks as they are so widely misunderstood and feared. I wish you lived closer Rob so you could come over some time and we could just play with rocks and talk snake. But if you are ever on the west coast drop me a line and shoot over for a day or two. I know it will be a blast. But I really want you to see what I'm talking about with tame rocks that play this "intimidation game". It's truly enjoyable and even comical. To me, they have the most personality and I enjoy working with them the most. I think they are the only ones that actually make me laugh out loud they tickle me so much with their antics.

Anyhoo, this post got too long. But while I would prefer a giant constrictor forum, it's easier for kingsnake to add a rock forum. But you gave me an idea with your post here Rob. Why not add an "Intellectual Forum" for those of us that truly like to get down to intellectual tacks and don't like the watered down forums with a thousand "My burm hissed today, does that mean anything" posts. I would love nothing more that to be able to post directly with folks like the Barkers, the Baldogos, Bob Clark (if he would ever actually come and post, lol) Marcia, Kassie, Bonnie, you, and the like. It would be great to have an undiluted "smart pool" and brainstorming forum. But maybe I should see if we can swing this rock python forum before I get ahead of myself.

Try to make it on more often. The forum is always richer for it.

>>I have mixed feelings on this subject. It seems like we have way too many specialized forums and for folks like me, we just don't have time to poke in all of the different forums. Burms, rocks, 'condas, and retics could easily fall into a "Giant Constrictor" Forum, however, most posts would get immediately buried by the countless pics that get posted (and it isn't that I don't enjoy pics, I do very much). So, as you said, a "Rock" forum would probably be the best alternative....personally, though, until we someday see consistently tame rocks being produced, I sure wouldn't want to start advocating them to be kept as pets (in my experiences, they are certainly the most aggressive of the giant species...perhaps comparable to green anacondas). As we keep adding forums, I think the pool of knowledgeable contributors begins to be watered down....you don't see nearly as many top knotch folks contributing as in past years.
>>
>>Rob Carmichael, Director/Curator
>>The Wildlife Discovery Center
>>City of Lake Forest Parks & Recreation (IL)
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It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

You right Brian, my experience with rocks is somewhat limited and all of the individual rocks I worked with were highly aggressive; not just a bluff but an all out attack for which I have received some nasty bites. But, there's no doubt that these snakes were improperly kept and raised and it is VERY refreshing to know that if given the proper environment, that rocks can not only tame down, but become quite reliable. I have witnessed one very tame rock who displays the exact bluff tactics as you described; it is quite a sight to behold but I found it rather comical myself. I find rocks absolutely beautiful and my comments were really meant as part of my excessively dry humor personality. And, I have relatives on the west coast so when I make it out that way, I will let you know (what part of California do you live?).

As far as your intellectual forum, that is really how things used to be when these forums first started; it was amazing and we had COUNTLESS of stimulating conversations and debates...unfortunately, a few bad apples ruined that and now you simply see the forums dominated by folks who have very limited experience and knowledge on these various subject areas. This is NOT meant to be critical to these people for it is great that they can come to a forum like this and post questions (and pics) where some of the experienced people like yourself can provide good, solid husbandry advice. Someday, though, it would be a neat thing to see come to fruition.

See ya, Rob

I'm glad that you have witnessed the bluff behavior first hand, because it's really hard to convince someone of this that hasn't seen it and people generally think I'm crazy or just imagining things, lol.

The older forums sound like they were great. It's unfortunate that I missed them. But if they existed once, we can certainly bring them back. And if not the same forums with the same herp dinosaurs with genuine "tenure status", there are constantly new "experts" emerging, so there's never a lack of hope. I mean, really,. how long does it take to be a "pro"? I'd say 5 to 10 years of daily interaction of numerous specimens. So there will never be a shortage of emerging experienced herpers that can contribute to the intellectual soup. I really enjoy the people right in the middle anyway. They still have a passion for it and have the dedication to just sit and observe an animal for hours on end and this is where new discovery is made. I've noticed a lot of old timers losing this "fascination" or "obssession" over time and then the real learning almost stops. Tossing food to 100 reptiles for 30 years does not make for a dedicated herper, you know? Luckily for me the boy in me is still very much alive and I am still to this day just as excited when even a 50 dollar milk hatches as I was 25 years ago when my first rattlesnake was born, or a few years later when my first burmese hatched. It was and still is, magical to me. Regardless of the market value.

I live just 30 minutes East of Los Angeles. Where do your relatives live? I have been wanting to meet you for some time now, so that would be pretty cool. I have been planning to get out that way as soon as it is feasible, but you know,. I have been knee-deep in the growth stages of my business and it's really hard to get away. But after February it should be relatively easy.

>>You right Brian, my experience with rocks is somewhat limited and all of the individual rocks I worked with were highly aggressive; not just a bluff but an all out attack for which I have received some nasty bites. But, there's no doubt that these snakes were improperly kept and raised and it is VERY refreshing to know that if given the proper environment, that rocks can not only tame down, but become quite reliable. I have witnessed one very tame rock who displays the exact bluff tactics as you described; it is quite a sight to behold but I found it rather comical myself. I find rocks absolutely beautiful and my comments were really meant as part of my excessively dry humor personality. And, I have relatives on the west coast so when I make it out that way, I will let you know (what part of California do you live?).
>>
>>As far as your intellectual forum, that is really how things used to be when these forums first started; it was amazing and we had COUNTLESS of stimulating conversations and debates...unfortunately, a few bad apples ruined that and now you simply see the forums dominated by folks who have very limited experience and knowledge on these various subject areas. This is NOT meant to be critical to these people for it is great that they can come to a forum like this and post questions (and pics) where some of the experienced people like yourself can provide good, solid husbandry advice. Someday, though, it would be a neat thing to see come to fruition.
>>
>>See ya, Rob
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It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

I agree, they should put a rock python forum. They're my favorite snakes(I've got three all tame) and I would really like to discuss about them. IMO, Rock pythons are the best snakes and truly deserve a forum.

They can add constrictor snakes care forum where everybody can discuss about constrictor husbandry. This way they won't have to add so many specific forums. They can break it down to pythons, boas, and anacondas forum with snakes care forum...and get rid of the ones we already have.

I may be the small percentage that will disagree with you as well as others on this subject but its for good reason.One its a major headache as well as time consuming to jump from one forum to the another just to get a general ? answered/asked about a boa/python.Take the boa forum for instance.The original was much better.It wasnt a headache or time consuming just to look at pics or ask/answer ?s,now you have the tree boa forum,rosy boa forum,etc.A boa is a boa no matter what color they are.They eat the same thing (with the exception of a few island species),have basically the same husbandry requirements give or take.True they do get different sizes,and require different humidity/temps but they are still a boa no matter what with the exception of the anaconda which to me should be in a classification of its own instead of boa/python.The python forum,the same way, in its original form it wasnt time consuming to see pics of these majestic giants as well as the small giants like bloods,but that went out the window as well.The boa forum as well as the python forum generalized the species into one forum so to me it was alot easier to get around instead of trying to click each individual forum just to get a ? answered/asked.Since the burm forum and the retic forum was already one in itself they should stay that way but as for the others leave it be.Life is very simple, its the thinking people that want to change everything,simpler is more times than not better than complicated.No offense or pun intended just a simple persom thinking outloud.Regards Bill McLeod

Glad to see this movement is still alive and kicking. I still think it's a great idea to have a giant snake forum as opposed to a forum for each individual species. Have the kingsnake.com powers that be had anything to say about this recently?

RP

No, I haven't gotten any form of a response from anyone other than Bonnie saying that she would see what could be done, if anything. That was about 2 months ago. She had said it would probably not be possible to "disolve" existing forums, but that it might be do-able to add a rock python forum. I said that we would take what we could get. But I'm sure it's not quite as easy as it seems it would be to change programming. That's all I can figure. So hey,.. if we can't get it, let's just start talking rock here in the burm forum. I'm sure that no one will mind too much.

>>Glad to see this movement is still alive and kicking. I still think it's a great idea to have a giant snake forum as opposed to a forum for each individual species. Have the kingsnake.com powers that be had anything to say about this recently?
>>
>>RP
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It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]