Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Repost:
I am new to owning bulls, I just purchased my first pair in November. My male was sold to me as a ghost, however as I research more into bull morphs, I'm wondering if this is accurate. His breeder told me his parents were hets that produced a few different morphs in their offspring, but he wasn't very specific and I didn't know enough about bull genetics at the time to really question him further. (stupid move, perhaps, but I wanted the snake)

When looking through pictures, he looks much closer to an ivory than the ghosts I've seen, as his patterning is very pale and non existant on his sides.

Is it more likely he is an ivory, or perhaps a white sided ghost bull? Or is there just a lot of variety in the ghost genes in bulls (I come from the perspective of a corn snake breeder and know there are huge varieties within their ghost morph)?

I got some photos this morning.


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1.1 Ghost corns, 1.1 Butter het. stripe corns, 0.1 normal corn
1.1 Tremper Albino Leopard Geckos
1.0 Super dalmation crested, 1.1 Pinstripe crested, 2.1.1 Misc crested
1.0 Ghost Bull, 0.1 Snow bull

A ghost is a hypo white-sided bullsnake. N ivory, as far as I have ever been convinced, is a TYPE of ghost bullsnake. It isn't a new trait/gene/allele - it is a line bred "improvement" on a ghost bull. (To the best of my knowledge, no test crosses have disproved this hypothesis.) An Ivory bull is to a ghost bull as a candycane corn is to an albino corn. Follow?

I'd like a more lateral shot of your snake to be sure, but it does look like a ghost bull to me. I wouldn't call it an ivory bull. This one has too much pattern to be an "ivory" IMO.

Call it a ghost, a hypo white-sided, or "Indiana Jones" - it is a pretty snake by any of those names....lol.
KJ
KJUN Snakehaven

If I am not mistaken, the Ivory's creator discovered last year that his was het Axanthic. Maybe it is a Hypo White Side that is a sort of visual het for Axanthic? Just a theory or better said guess but time will tell I suppose. Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com

>>If I am not mistaken, the Ivory's creator discovered last year that his was het Axanthic. Maybe it is a Hypo White Side that is a sort of visual het for Axanthic? Just a theory or better said guess but time will tell I suppose. Tom Stevens
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>>TomsSnakes.com

I've noticed a strong resemblance between his Ivory bulls and Ballam's "luecistic" bulls (which look it, but are not really Leucistic). I don't think they have the same trait, but the appearnces are due to "convergence." Plus, I've seen regualr old WS bulls with just a FEW specks on their entire body. Thoser animals were awesome, but got lost as people outcrossed for numbers instead of quality. Man, I wish I would have bought them back when I saw them. Anyway, those are probably the origin for the Ivory bulls - call them "Super WS bulls"....lol.

If they are axanthic, it is almost definitely NOT due to the Miami County line. Soooo, do the Ivory bulls have the slender heads like the Ballam bulls? Could they be Ballam Axanthic? Hmmmmmmm.

There is at least on other line of axanthic bulls I know about, but none of them were ever sold. That line doesn't exist any more, but they were supposedly "blue" like ther New England Line of axanthic brooksi. Can you imagine bulls that color???? Wow - and sad they don't exist!

....or would this be a forth line of axthanism in bulls - assuming they really do carry such a trait. I would believe it. The axanthic trait seems to be MUCH more common in the wild than we really tend to think!

KJ
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KJUN Snakehaven

What do you think of this?






Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com

Tom,
Is that one from Scott.He got the parents from me (if its the ones I am thinking of)and yes I would call them axanthic.
Very cool.

L8r

Hey Shannon, those are the ones from the adults that I got from you. Some of those pics are about a year old though.

Scott Robinson

sweet,
how big is that female now.she was pushing seven foot when I sent her to you a couple years ago.

L8r
Shannon

p.s. how are the monster bulls looking?

Big and as bulky as ever. The monsters are doing very well also. Female has a nasty nip to her but the male is pretty laid back.

Scott

That's the one we discussed at NARBC, right?
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KJUN Snakehaven

Yes sir, the pics are of an 06 baby I now own and the large one is from the year before owned by Scott Robinson
Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com

Interesting!!! Didnt you say in an earlier post that that snake hatched from brown adults? I'm glad I decided to keep my southerns. They're brown phase,but starting to look different with each shed. The blotches are spreading out and the male has a cool mottled pattern on his sides. Are my pair related to this axanthic one by any chance,lol? I got them from Shaun Robberson. Kevin