Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Disapointing and strange first litter of the season.

Well my first female of the year gave birth on Friday. 108 days POS. Unfortunately I did not get a healthy litter from her at all. There were only 11 live babies, most of which look very premature. 4 still borns and 34 slugs.
The strange part is that I bred her with a hypo male yet all of the babies, live or still born are normals. Kinda threw me for a loop. I guess you can't always count on the odds.
The good news is the female is doing well despite the poor litter. She has taken a small meal over the weekend and apears her normal healthy, alert and ravenous self which I am greatful for. She lost a lot of weight with this one and is now very skinny. It will probably take some time to get her back to her normal weight. She weighed in at 39 pounds pre-breeding on a empty stomach.
This is the first time I have had such a poor beeding outcome with her and as some of you probably know it can be pretty upseting especially after all the build up and aticipation waiting for her to drop.
I just wanted to share my experience and vent a little. Better luck to everyone else expecting soon.
Thanks, Milo

Bummer on the poor outcome. Hopefully the premies will pull through for ya.
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Randall L Turner Jr.
Boas make the world go round.

May just be bad luck, but you should talk to Celia Chien. Last year she bred a Motley male to a Hypo female and got no Motleys. And half a litter of slugs. There were thoughts that she may have retained sperm from the Jungle male she had been bred to the year before, but the babies didn't look like regular Jungles.

Anyway. Since you both used a male morph that should have resulted in F1 babies of that morph and since you both had a high number of slugs there might be a relation. Of course it could be nothing. I think all of her babies were female as well.

Just something you might want to look into. It can't hurt.

Now that you mention it, I remember her posts last year about that litter. I hadn't made that conection before now. It will be interesting to see what the sexes are of the live ones I have. If I remember right, part of the hypothisis of the retained sperm idea with her litter came from the fact that all the offspring were female, right? Since female sperm is supposedly slower moving but longer lived than their male counterparts.
I have been racking my brain for any inconsistincies in husbandry this season that might be to blame for the high number of slugs. But everything was done pretty much right on track with what has worked for her past litters which came out well. Another thought I had was her age, but females have been proven to be sexually reproducive into their late teens, early twenties right?
Anyway thanks for the input. Definately gives me another thing to consider.
If I remember right, Celia Chien's litter was also exceptional looking hypos, like possible supers, and parthenogenesis (SP) was also a topic of consideration with that litter wasn't it? Do you know how the animals from that litter have matured and if there are any more conclusive ideas to their orgins?
Thanks, Milo.

Celia was trying to get paternal tests done (would be wild if it worked and showed no father, lol).

You'll have to talk to her.

I do remember that theory about female sperm living longer, I think I may have said something about that. However someone did correct the statement saying that in Reptiles, like Birds, male's do not determine the sex of offspring like mammals.

The odd part to your litter is 108 POS, and high number of slugs and babies that look premie. Premie babies born with slugs isn't odd as slugs usually are pushed out prior to full term. But 108 POS is over the normal time. Though people have gone up and over 120 POS.

Talk to Celia.
Sometimes things like this can be good for the learning experience. And good luck with the live babies, one is better than none, and you have more than one!

I was suprised that at 108 days all the live babies looked premie too. I even went back, checked my records and re did the math just to make sure.
One thing I can say so though, is that with this particular female, who has bred four times for me since 2002, she has been consistently late and has always gone a few days past her predicted POS plus 105 days. I not sure why since my other big female has been within a day both of her times.
Just individual traits I guess.