Reptile & Amphibian Forums

... I have a female Corn that is full of eggs, thing is, she has NEVER been with another snake, always kept seperate. A couple years back, she dropped a couple eggs into her water dish, so I never could verify that they were infertile, but I bet they were. I have noticed now she is packed full with eggs again, I once again am guessing they will be infertile, but is this something snakes can just do without being with another snake?

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5.9 Corns
1.1 San Diego Gophers
1.1 Sonoran Gophers
1.0 Cape Gopher
1.0 Southern Pine
1.1 Bulls
0.4 Texas Rats
1.2 Everglades Rats
1.2 Yellow Rats
1.1 Grey Rats
1.1 Black Rats
2.5 Cal. Kings
1.2 Gray-Banded Kings

I have a pair of '05 Candycanes that I was holding off to breed another year and that female is full of eggs as well. Never been with a male(I dont house my corns together). Ive been told it just happens sometimes.
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I have come to the conclusion that there is no cure for snake addiction!

Sure can happen, I've had corns that were housed in the same rack system as males form and lay infertile eggs. It isn't a common occurance for me but from time to time I get a little shock when I open the drawer.
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Inventory
1.2 Bairds Rat Snake
5.11 Ball Pythons
1.3 Boa Constrictors
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boas
0.2 Cal Kings
1.2 Carpet Pythons
26.38.4 Corn Snakes
1.2 Dumerils Boa
1.0 Eastern Fox Snake
1.1 Green Tree Pythons
1.0 Grey Banded Kingsnake
1.1 Hog Island Boa
1.3 Jallisco Milksnake
1.3 Kenyan Sand Boas
1.1 Mandarin Rat Snake
1.3 Mexican Black Kingsnake
0.0.1 Northern Water Snake
1.1 Red Milksnake
1.1 Ruthvens Kingsnake
2.5 San Luis Potosi Kingsnake
1.1 Spotted Pythons
1.2 Taiwan Beauty
5.5 Western Hognose

Possible, but rather unlikely. Though parthenogenesis has been documented in snakes, it's far more common for a female to lay a clutch of infertile eggs.

Even if the previous eggs were laid in a water dish, you could probably tell if the eggs were fertile or not, just by a visual inspection (fertile eggs are usually white and larger than yellowish, infertile eggs).

Tim

Third Eye

Yes, this can sometimes happen fairly often,...also they have been known to "store" sperm for several years on occasion. It's hard to say from the photo, or without seeing them in person, but those eggs don't really look half bad, although certainly should be infertile if never introduced to a male!!.One thing I would do though, is take the huge water dish out, and put in a very small one, filled with about 1/4" of water, or take it out all together when it comes time to laying, .....most of the time, bad eggs are either hard and yellowish, or very beige and soft/slippery......you could even add a box for her to lay them in with moist spagnum moss in it just for the heck of it....Doug
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Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!

Good call, the pic is from a couple years back, I thought she was too small and certainly didn't expect eggs, so when these were in the dish, I was shocked to say the least. No idea she was even full of them.

Last night I put a little plastic 1oz. salsa container in her tank with water, and a hidebox with moist moss for her to lay.

Went home at lunch, she had popped one out, kind of small and elliptical, beige and soft, got a small container filled with perlite ready to go, will see tonight what the outcome is... it's a bummer they mos likely won't be fertile, but wouldn't it be cool if they were!?
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5.9 Corns
1.1 San Diego Gophers
1.1 Sonoran Gophers
1.0 Cape Gopher
1.0 Southern Pine
1.1 Bulls
1.4 Texas Rats
1.2 Everglades Rats
1.2 Yellow Rats
1.1 Grey Rats
1.1 Black Rats
2.5 Cal. Kings
1.2 Gray-Banded Kings

Wow!!,...what are the odds!!LOL......Yeah, that would be insane if they WERE viable eggs!!,....but like you mentioned, if they are real beige,slippery, and soft(not visually porous) that is not a good sign. But you didn't have a male for her anyway, so nothing lost!, right!LOL......anyway, time will tell!....Doug
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Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!

>>Went home at lunch, she had popped one out, kind of small and elliptical, beige and soft, got a small container filled with perlite ready to go, will see tonight what the outcome is... it's a bummer they mos likely won't be fertile, but wouldn't it be cool if they were!?

Unless the egg is 100% easy to identity as being a slug (small, yellow/orange and hard), it's best to always assume the eggs are good until proven otherwise. Treat them as if they are fertile until they go bad. If it is a case of parthenogenesis, then there will be a high failure rate on the eggs as time goes on...just a natural quirk of the process.

With the clutch I had, it was 10 small eggs. 4 were slugs. 6 "looked good". After two weeks, 4 of the 6 when candled began showing blood vessels... soon after the other 2 went bad. Then as time went on, I noticed the blood vessels in the eggs were starting to slowly thin out and vanish and then eggs started going bad one after another. By the time the hatch date came around I was left with 1 egg and it too had started getting a funky mold on it. So it totally surprised me to come home one day and see a nose sticking out of it - especially since that particular egg was attached to another moldy egg that I couldn't separate.

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PHWyvern

I was wondering, that snake was probably female. Is she old enough to breed now and if so, is she fertile?
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"Life is Killing Me"

>>I was wondering, that snake was probably female. Is she old enough to breed now and if so, is she fertile?
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The snake is indeed female, but not old enough yet .. she's only 6 months old LOL.
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PHWyvern

That's awesome! Glad to hear stuff like that... I hope I have the same luck... Did yours produce exactly what the adult was? Not too sure how genetics works with that, but I would assume they would be the same!?
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5.9 Corns
1.1 San Diego Gophers
1.1 Sonoran Gophers
1.0 Cape Gopher
1.0 Southern Pine
1.1 Bulls
1.4 Texas Rats
1.2 Everglades Rats
1.2 Yellow Rats
1.1 Grey Rats
1.1 Black Rats
2.5 Cal. Kings
1.2 Gray-Banded Kings

>>That's awesome! Glad to hear stuff like that... I hope I have the same luck... Did yours produce exactly what the adult was? Not too sure how genetics works with that, but I would assume they would be the same!?
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It's a form of self cloning but they are never "identical" to the mother because not all of the mother's exact dna is carried over to the offspring. And there is more than one type of parthenogenesis ... the common one people are familiar with where all females are produced and another type (automictic parthenogenesis) where all males are produced. In that 2nd type, the female chromosomes wind up being fatal (non-fertile) so that only males are the result. more interesting information is here: http://home.pcisys.net/~dlblanc/articles/Parthenogenesis.php
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PHWyvern

Hi everyone! I've found this string of posts to be very interesting, especially since my female corn is very plump with eggs right now! I got her about 18 months ago from a pet shop, they said she had always been caged solo, but 6 months later, she laid a small clutch of eggs (6 or 7) which I discarded the next day assuming that they were all infertile (all but two were small, brownish, and hard; the other two were larger, but I didn't think at the time they could be fertile.) Since I got her, she has not been in a cage with another snake. Last time (about a year ago) she was only slightly plump before laying the eggs...this time, she is very thick, so I assume either larger and/or more eggs.
Anyways, I'm confused about the previous post saying the offspring was a female...I have only heard of reptiles having automictic parthenogenesis, producing only males. Can you clarify on the other type of parthenogenesis that allows females to a-sexually produce females?? That is completely new to me for advanced (complicated) life forms.
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-David

1.0 ball python (Pandora - don't ask)
1.0 argentine boa (Prometheus)
0.1 hogg island boa (Andromeda)
0.0.1 brazilian rainbow boa (Inara)
1.0 kenyan sand boa (Diablo)
1.0 nornal corn snake(Cypress)
0.1 amery. corn snake (Morgan LaFay)
0.0.1 banded cali. kingsnake (Cain)
1.0 tangerine honduran milksnake (Narcissus)
0.0.1 snow corn snake (Valkyrie)
0.0.1 sandfish skink (Slick)
1.0 dog (Luke)

>> Anyways, I'm confused about the previous post saying the offspring was a female...I have only heard of reptiles having automictic parthenogenesis, producing only males. Can you clarify on the other type of parthenogenesis that allows females to a-sexually produce females?? That is completely new to me for advanced (complicated) life forms.

My understanding has always been that the female offspring from parthenogenesis is the more common seen of the two. However, now that people are studying it more it's possible that the AP may be more common than people think. Quite likely there are folks who assumed that offspring they got from non-matings was simply due to 'retained sperm' and if it was all males produced they are less likely to even think about parthenogenesis as the cause since many people relate parthenogenesis with producing females. I believe that sperm is ideally only viable for a year or two at the most and any offspring produced 3 years should be looked into as likely possible cases of parthenogenesis - especially if the produced offspring are all of one gender.
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PHWyvern

I believe one of the moderators here at Kingsnake.com has a king snake that was the result of parthenogenesis.

>>I believe one of the moderators here at Kingsnake.com has a king snake that was the result of parthenogenesis.

Yep. and that little one is now pushing 16 inches (rough estimate - won't sit still for an accurate measurement) and eating like a pig. Should be able to get fuzzies down soon. Absolutely the neatest eastern king I've ever seen.. nearly perfect patternless yellow belly..just a few spots of black.

Mother snake is looking a little thick in the middle and was acting a bit odd/restless this past weekend. She refused to eat too which is so unlike her...the only times she has ever refused food was right before she laid eggs. She's one of those that will pig out even when her eyes are blued up. I'm thinking she's gravid, but it's hard to tell..she never looks gravid.. she just stops eating within days of laying eggs. If this is indeed a pattern being established, then she would be laying eggs in a week or so. fingers crossed. Of course, she also just recently shed so what occurred over the last few days could have likely been pre-ovulation shed and then ovulation which means it will be a few more weeks before I can expect eggs (if any).

Picture of Annie a couple days after hatching last summer...

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PHWyvern

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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"Life is Killing Me"

All this just verifies what I've told others many times!!,.... nature is TRULY stranger than any fiction anyone could write!, it always amazes me as to what animals do!!LOL..............Doug
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Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!