Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have just purchased some black milksnakes Lampropeltis t. gaigeae. I will be interested in breeding them in the next few years. The question that I have is, how do I cool them. Do I cool them the same as most other milks (low 50s for four months). I would be pritty pissed if I were to cool them and accidentally kill them. Please let me know if anyone has info or knows where to get it on the hibernation of this species.
Thanks: Jason

I would not attempt breeding Black milks until 3 years of age. Breed only the largest female you have at three years old. The eggs a very large and the females may become egg bound it you try to breed under three years. (Eggs are huge).

You have a tropical snake (Costa Rica) if you attempt to hibernate at temperate snake climate you may have a disaster on your hands. Try this, 76 to 78 degrees day temps and 68 to 70 for night temps. Do this for at least 60 days. This is a cooling period not hibernation. Males may be cooled a couple of degrees lower to help develop sperm. Keep water available.

Prior to the cooling period slow way down on the feeding. Continue to feed very sparingly. Turn lights down or off. At 60 days bring the temps back up slowly and back to normal light (photo periods).

Feed and wait for (shedding). Never introduce a hungry Black Milk to its mate! These snakes have an incredible eating response and can take just about any pry offered. I feed mine chicks, Quail, and rats. My best suggestion to you is to dig for research. Hartford Breeding center has done a lot of work with Black Milks and if you contact them directly more of your questions may be answered.

These are wonderful snakes. I hope you enjoy them as much as I have. I hope this has helped you, Good luck.

Hello,
I partially agree with Dann... you should definitely wait until they are 3-4 years of age to breed, gaigeae eggs are very large, and females bred too young are prone to egg binding.

As far as temps are concerned... black milks do technically come from a tropical zone since they are native to Costa Rica and Panama, but they are also a montane species, living in the cloud forests at altitudes of over 5000 feet. The climate at that altitude is much cooler than at sea level, which is why black milks are able to thrive at room temperature. 76 to 78 during the day and 68 to 70 would be fine temps to keep them at year-round. Since Costa Rica and Panama are so close to the equator, there actually isn't much temperature variation from season to season, so in the cloud forests, it's high 60s - low 70s all year. Because of this, it's actually not necessary to cool black milks to stimulate breeding. However, some people still do, and the breeder I got mine from (Steve Emerick) cools his gaigeae at the same temps as his hondurans and other milks with no ill effects. So, really, the waiting 3-4 years for them to mature seems to be the hardest part! Good luck.

Nate

Nate,
Good observation. I found the climate of the region also in my research on this snake.
I also lived in Panama (Balboa) for three years and the only difference between summer and winter was the dry and wet periods. Temperatures did dropped on the coastline and varied only slightly during winter (dry) periods but still reached mid 70’s to higher 80’s most days. Temperatures in summer (wet) period kept the higher elevations in mist and rain and the temp ran cooler but not much. The canopy was always cooler up in the higher ground and the light was limited during this period because of cloud cover. Great seafood by the way.
I would say it would be safe to change the temperature and light as I have suggested to that which may induce the breeding urge to that of the climate for which it originates. Not to that of other sub species. There again Blacks may not need cooling or photo changes as you suggested. The advice I gave is not that far out of (normal?) keeping for this species or the land in which it originates.
I have one more year to fine out if this theory works. Nate, if you attempt breeding without cooling or photo changes and they copulate let me know I will attempt it. Keep me posted. Dann

Hello,
Thanks for sharing your insights on Panama... I hope to be able to visit there myself someday. My black milks are still a couple years away from breeding, so it's going to be a while before I can share with my results with you. One of my primary sources of information has been the Vivarium (Vol. 7 Issue 4) written by Erik Holmback and Alan Kardon of the San Antonio Zoo. They maintain their black milks at 66-76 degrees year round. They also used a photoperiod cycle of 16h light/8h dark spring-summer and 11h light/13h dark fall-winter. At any rate, my comments weren't meant as a criticism of your techniques... it sounds like your black milks are doing quite well, and I'd be a fool to argue with success. I just wanted to point out that some people have been able to keep them at lower temperatures and breed them without cooling. I think the fact that gaigeae can live and successfully breed under such a wide variety of conditions says a lot about what a hardy and adaptable subspecies they are.

Nate

Nate,

Didn’t view anything you stated as criticism. I view these forms as a tool to better my husbandry and to help others if I can. I also have thick skin! I could tell you were it for helping and not the other.

I think we will all gain in our sharing of information. This in turn will make us better keepers and breeders.

I purchased some from Steve also, and one male from outside his line, getting huge and eating everything. I think it’s also good to know what bloodlines we have and were there from.

Good luck and Keep me posted on your efforts I will do the same.

Thanks for the responses.
Jason