Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi,

This is my first attempt at breeding chondros. I currently have 2 eggs at day 39, using the 1-5-1 method. This morning the rear egg started to develop a “window”. I’ve been told by ball python breeders this can occur, but wasn’t sure if it was a sign of a problem with chondro eggs. This is the first change of either egg, except for normal egg denting around day 30. The humidity is high, but no moisture is accumulating inside of the egg container. Any advice or comments would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

- Evan

I've seen windows in all kinds of species eggs but it was usually there the whole time. I haven't seen it suddenly develop.
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Evan:

The "window" or wet spot is usually a sign that the egg is going bad. Sometimes, the egg was never good to begin with as in the case of an infertile egg. Infertile eggs invariably go bad during incubation, but look indistinguishable from fertile eggs. Infertile eggs can be identified by candling. Have you candled these eggs?

The eggs in the picture show way too much denting at this stage of incubation. This is a sign that you need to add more humidity to the incubator or switch the eggs to damp vermiculite. Switching the eggs to vermiculite sometimes saves dehydrated eggs from further deterioration.

Keith,

These eggs have been candled several times, last time being about 10 days ago, and have showed excellent veining. Regarding the egg denting, I’ve been under the impression that this is normal. I’ve been following Greg Maxwell’s outline for incubation which goes 1 week at 86-87 oF, 5 weeks at 89 oF, and 1 week at 85-86 oF. The eggs both dented in at the exact same day somewhat quickly, day 30 (pg. 281 of his book). According to Greg, this is a natural occurrence. The eggs were actually switched off of vermiculate due to excessive humidity around day 10 of incubation. I’ve become somewhat concerned with the egg, especially since they’re due to hatch in about 10 days.

Thanks for your reply.

- Evan

the window is a concern but it does not mean the egg is dead. I have hatched out perfectly fine babies from eggs with windows...

I am concerned abot the amount of denting in those eggs.. i would have raised the humidity to rehydrate them long ago.. again, it does not mean all is lost.. it's just what i would have done..

Oh, what happend to the rest of the clutch??

keep us posted on them

~ Mike Russo

Mike,

I know it sounds crazy, but the humidity is very high (approx. 85-90%). According to Greg Maxwell’s book, this denting is normal in the last 20 days of incubation (pg.280-281 in the book). Sure enough, at day 30 both eggs dented in. If anyone besides Greg said this was normal then I would be very skeptic, but he is the chondro king.

The rest of the clutch was unfortunately lost. She laid 17 (3 slugs) and I could only see positive veining on about 8 of the “good” 14. I believe that excessive humidity and poor circulation from too fine vermiculate (original substrate before the no-substrate method) was the cause of the egg deaths. At day 9 they were switched to the no-substrate method, but I believe it was too late for many of the eggs. Breeding chondros has been a huge learning curve. I’ve discovered first hand that they have much more specific requirements than most other pythons. I wish I did a few things differently, but that is the beauty of hindsight. Live and learn.

Thanks for the reply,
Evan

Like i said it was just my opinion.. Greg helped me the first time i bred chondro's too...But, this was WAY before the book was out though..

I let the female sit on the eggs using dry sphagnum moss as substrate in a wooden bird nesting box and i always had very good hatch rates..

Good luck with the last 2 eggs! And, you are 100% correct there is a HUGE learning curve with chondro's and in my opinion captive produced babies are well worth every penny they are sold for!!

~ Mike Russo

I'd like to chime in a bit and add--True eggs will show signs of inward denting during the latter days of incubation, but I prefer to note this around day 35 to day 40, and further not to the extent that yours show. But still, they may be fine. I've also heard of reports from some people that were successful in hatching out chondro neonates from eggs that showed the 'window' or water spotting that yours is developing. I however have never been as lucky as those folks (apparently) as I've lost every egg that has developed those characteristics. In fact, I've never been able to curb it, or slow down the growth of such water spots. From the picture it looks like that side of the egg has come into contact with your deli cup and during the latter stages of incubation this contact is only asking for trouble (imo).

Rich C

Evan:

A wet spot or window does not guarantee that the egg will go bad. It is however one of the signs that we normally see with eggs turning bad. Most wet spots continue to expand. A few do not. Hopefully, yours is one of the ones that stabilizes.

As far as denting is concerned: Some denting is normal. But the denting in your pics is too much denting for eggs with your incubation time.

You might post an updated pic. That would give us a better idea of what's going on.