Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Since it's substrate swap time, here's a pic of the baby as promised. I haven't figured out my damn camera yet so it's very blurry (I'm no photographer), but I'll grab another when I put him back on a different setting and see if it's any better.

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1.0 Eastern Kingsnake, Chain (Mars)
0.1 Gray Banded Kingsnake (Thanatos)

np

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1.0 Eastern Kingsnake, Chain (Mars)
0.1 Gray Banded Kingsnake (Thanatos)

Im not so sure thats an Eastern Kingsnake. Where did you get it ? Looks like its a Eastern X Brooksi cross.
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Big Jack Bronson

River City Reptiles

What tips you off that he may be a cross?
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1.0 Eastern Kingsnake, Chain (Mars)
0.1 Gray Banded Kingsnake (Thanatos)

The fact that the yellow bands are very wide and that the black areas have faded patches in the middle.

I see what you mean, it's almost like a faded overlay pattern of regular stripes rather than the chain pattern..

I will ask about this and request to see the parents, because you're right. Could be just a strange pattern or something else.

What makes you think brooksi?
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1.0 Eastern Kingsnake, Chain (Mars)
0.1 Gray Banded Kingsnake (Thanatos)

I am no eastern expert (so I changed the title so a few might chime in) But my understanding is that at the edges of the ranges of these species there is some natural integration.

The reason I would say brooksi or floridana is that the basic body shape and pattern of these species is kind of like an eastern except the black areas are very faded and mottled. Your snake shows just a little bit of this. Maybe a 75% eastern? Its imposible to ever know for sure. The best you can do is guess, and not market offspring as pure easterns. Asking for pics of the parents could clarify things quite a bit as well.

Another reason is it is also an extremely likely hybrid. IE the same people tend to keep both species and they interbreed very easily.

Very pretty snake though. Great orange coloration still showing.

Could even have some gene-flow from "goini", but who knows!!, only the breeder knows for sure,.....and maybe he doesn't even know!!...which is also a possibility!,.....................Doug
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Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!

I have no intention of breeding, and if I did, I'd discount him as a specimen since he's less than ideal.

I like him as he is, and he'll be a pet. With the possible cross in mind, I can't wait to see what he ends up as when he gets older. The mottling and orange color is why I named him Mars as in Marsbar.
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1.0 Eastern Kingsnake, Chain (Mars)
0.1 Gray Banded Kingsnake (Thanatos)

You probably have a florida x goini

Here is a eastern x florida.

As you can see the blocthes lighten up and disperse nicly. It may be your prize snake in a couple years.

more eastern x florida pics:

Florida X goini crosses:

All the above are het for hypo. A hypo Florida king was used .

Those are some nice snakes..

I may love it yes, but it's still being sold as a pure Eastern and I want to make sure they know that the snakes they are dealing with may not be pure as they are selling them (and at $150 per hatchling, I'm slightly put out). At least that way they can determine if they want hatchlings from that pair again.

Do you mind if I link those pictures
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1.0 Eastern Kingsnake, Chain (Mars)
0.1 Gray Banded Kingsnake (Thanatos)

you can link those pictures for this particular cause.

Now tell me what the difference is between captive bred intergrades and W/C? There is no difference really except you don't know what percentage is what. It all splicing hairs really.

I like both the captive-crossed and wild intergrades. If I were someone that wanted to buy a snake that looked like an easternXFlorida king for a pet, I might not care whether it was a man made cross or not.

The difference is that the wild snake is the result of interbreeding between eastern and Florida kings assumedly thousands of years ago. It's an F500 cross, where-as the captive-produced crosses are F1s, F2s, etc... The wild intergrades developed their look as an adaptation for their particular habitats. Plus I'm a locale guy... half the fascination for these snakes is all in my head!

That was very well put.

Thanks

Definitely looks like an intergrade to me...
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
www.kingpinreptiles.com

The head pattern and the ontogentic lightening is a dead giveaway to a cross. I will say that Outer Banks Kings go thru the same thing but thats no Outer Banks. Ive even seen some limited lightening in some Eastern populations especially from the south but not to the extent your guy is showing. Someone mentioned a possible Goini cross and thats a viable theory as as well. Nice looking snake regardless.
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Big Jack Bronson