Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok, I have a Nile monitor, not a clue on sex, about 1.5 yrs old.

Ive been told these animals, with "proper husbandry" can grow to 4 feet in the first year. My animal is only about 32"-34" long. The tail is think and it eats well, is alert, and shows no sign of sickness or displeasurement.

Its diet has been varied and plentiful all its life, including crickets, fish, shrimp, snails, mice, froglets, geckos, chicks and just about anything else that went into its cage. Many of these items were dusted with calcium/vitamin mixture and/or were gut loaded. For the first 6-8 months or so, I could hand feed the animal small feeder fish, holding them by the tail as it snapped them from my fingers (and never once did it bite me during those feedings).

Its had access to fullspectrum lighting, including UVB all its life. Its had a basking spot thats constantly maintained at 95-100 degrees, a lowered hide box and a pool of filtered water for soaking, drinking and thermoregulation that I spot clean twice daily and change once a week.

I kept it in a 75 gallon tank up until about 2 months ago, when I moved and transfered it to a 125 gallon tank. Its now got a much larger pool with better filtration, a rocky hide spot and a large area of mixed substrates for digging burrows (which it has done to an amazing degree). The substrated area is heated from above by a heat bulb and a second, higher watt heat bulb is placed above a log that serves as the basking perch. The cage also has UVA/B bulbs.

The water area is about 6-8" deep and takes up about 1/4 of the cage, which in a 125 gallon is a relatively large area (more than enough for then animal to submerge its entire body easily. I place snails, shrimp, crayfish and fish into this area and he hunts them out at his leisure. As I said, I keep it quite clean.

Im wondering what the problem could be with my animal, as I feed it 3 times a week, 3-5 live adult feeder mice per feeding and it gobbles them up greedily. This does not include the feeders in the water area mentioned above that it consumes (usually 2-3 crayfish per week, along with 6-10 fish every 2 weeks). Its tail is thick and it appears healthy. Should you attempt to pester it (aka, handle it in just about any way), it gives you a viscious demonstration of how healthy it is. Ive had some success when I try to solo handle the animal, as Ive been with it for quite some time and it recognizes me, but due to some mishaps, its not very social (once when I was taking it out of the cage, it whipped its tail and somehow managed to slap a heat bulb- the bulb was unplugged, but still hot, and the lizards tail was wet... boom. me, my friend and the monitor all staring wide eyed at each other, not sure who it was exactly that made the lightbulb explode).

Im planning on adding 2, 65-gallon reptarium (netting style) cages that I have to the top of this setup. This would give me the ability to increase climbing and basking areas, as well as add some large live trees (ive tried adding live plants, and the only ones ive found arent destroyed quickly are floating water plants and large live trees). The total area would be the equivalent of a 255-gallon enclosure.

I know this wont last for long, but will it be suitable to house the animal for a few months until I can build him a larger setup this summer, something more like 8' wide x 6' tall x 6' deep. With the snow outside, its just too hard to get around right now.

Also, why is my animal not growing? Its not that I mind it taking its time with gaining size, but Im worried there may be a health issue. Is there a wide range between male and female monitors? Any thoughts?

Also, does anyone have any suggestions about handling techniques with aggressive monitors?

When I bagged this animal for transport to my new home, it became extremely aggitated. During the short time it took to move it from its enclosure to the bag, it managed to big, scratch and poop on both me and my assistant. No big deal.

The surprise came when we got it into the bag- the lizard became completely non-aggressive. The bag was sheer and it could easily see us through the cloth, not to mention smell us. Still, it let me handle it through the bag with no aggression. Could I try using this to get the animal calmed down? Maybe just bag it once or twice a day and watch an hour of TV with it, then slowly get it used to not being in the bag?

Any thoughts?

Don't bag it unecessarily and don't handle it either. What you speak of is healthy monitor behavior. Set it up in an enclosure as big as you can offer and just enjoy watching, feeding and allowing it to live out a healthy life as a Nile. You will probably find(if you structure it's space well)that maintenance and management of the enclosure requires minimal (most of the time none) handling at all. You will be pleased by this and your monitor will be happier with you and tolerate your presence more. Appreciate it for what it is, a beautiful dominant beast. Also, I would advise against any screening type of enclosure. Strong digging limbs and claws make short work of those enclosures. Also, give your Nile lots of deep dirt to dig into. The wild ones down here dig into the slopes overlying the canals- big holes- some 15" in diameter. I have watched them eat frogs, fish and rats(which everyone wants to pretend don't exist here- lots of rats!)within feet of me. Best to you- Mike

i hope these answers are on topic and helpful:

Growth rate can be slowed by rationing. All other things being optimal, feeding him all he wants daily will let him grow faster than 3 times a week feeding. I don't regard as harmful to feed a growing monitor all he wants of what he wants, basically. When his growth curve flattens it is time for me to consider a different dietary regimen designed to restrict caloric intake and extend lifespan.

The single most important thing you can do to eliminate aggression is to extinguish aggressive feeding behaviour. Make sure he does not have to chase or catch or kill prey. When he takes food calmly from the floor, you can start using food as a reward for shaping other behaviours. Monitors are smart, learn quickly and remember forever. They are creatures of habit, like any other; changes disturb them.

Results such as this are being produced: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkjXnWwvjx4 for an example. Other examples show safe and mutually satisfying interaction between monitor and keeper/trainer.

I do not disagree with your first paragraph.

Nor do I disagree with your third paragraph. People without question do not understand that in most cases they tease feeding monitors. That is, they are not feeding the amounts necessary to cause the monitors to stop hunting. I have attempted to explain this many many times. There is a REAL difference in a hungry monitor, a more hungry monitor, a straving monitors, and a desperate starving monitor.

When a monitor is hungry, they hunt, period. At first most species sit and wait, ambush feed, that is they wait for prey to come to them. In this picture, a prey item should not venture near the mouth of the burrow.

If prey does not come to the monitor, of course its hunger becomes greater, then it leaves to find food. If food is not to be found, reptiles seek to lower their metabolism, that is, they do down, this controlls their hunger. They can lower the use of energy which prolongs the time it takes to become in desperate need of food.

In captivity, they cannot manipulate their own metabolism, so they starve. A starving monitor or desperately starving monitor will attempt to consume anything it can including cagemates. This is the Number one reason most folks, INCLUDING academics, cannot keep groups together. They starve them into behaving in a cannibalistic manner. WHICH is not normal.

And yes you are correct, its adverse to allowing a captive monitor to act in a normal way, towards humans, and other animals. In that, your correct.

But where the boat has sailed for you. You fail to understand that ambient conditions DIRECTLY controlls hunger and aggression.

This has been brought up to you many times but not in a way you may understand. IF you allowed your monitors temperature conditions of THEIR OWN CHOOSING, they will not react in the method your use too. Lets backtrack, To lower the feeding responce and feeding ABILITY, all you have to do is lower the temps. Monitors will feed at temps from 45F up. Yes, my monitors will feed when they are so cold they can barely move. At lower conditions, they are slow and deliberate. At medium temps, say room temps or slightly above, they only feed on small items, that they THINK they can phyically conquer. When monitors are cool, they do not have normal physical abilities. Let me switch up a second, If you find a WILD monitor in cooler conditions, they choose not to run. The reason is, they cannot run. If you find them whens it hot, the same monitor in the same place will bolt with the speed of a racehorse(several species are under that common name, racehorse monitor) Back to feeding.

What is WRONG with your little tests is, your are using INCOMPLETE monitors. That is, they are running at half speed. Which is the real reason why 99% of captive savs die. ITs NOT because they are pets or being tamed and handled, its simply because they are undermetabolized. FATTY LIVER IS a direct result of suboptimal temps PERIOD.

Now about you. A normal varanid cage, that is one that has the temp choices to allow normal varanid activity and behavior is so hot as to be VERY UNCOMFORTABLE to humans. In fact, if you were to stay is a good monitor cage, you may die. ITS HOT

So your attempts using monitors at or near room temps is not taming a REAL monitor, but instead, taming and controlling a incapacitated monitor. Why people are saying what they say is, a full on monitor will take your face off. Not because its mean, or not tame its because they are VERY VERY VERY agressive feeders and cannot afford to miss feeding oppertunities.

Mind you, I do not think monitors are nasty and untame. I think when treated normally to them, they are very very tolerant and quickly take advantage of reward conditioning. Which means, you can indeed train them to many many tricks.

Which is why I am not impressed with you. They are a perfect candidate for such things.

TO switch the subject. I fail to be impressed with controlling a captive subject. That is, your monitor has no other options. To brag a little, I have done what your doing with wild lizards that had full options. They could indeed choose to not take food from me or follow me around or sit on my lag. But they did, yes, wild free ranging lizards. So whats so cool are forcing a CAPTIVE TO EARN HIS FOOD. Cheers

Sorry for not editing that post, as my wife called me away. But you get the point.

The only major error was I said the third paragraph, when I meant the second. From the second paragragh on, I am not in aggreement with you in any way.

What I would hope you learn to understand is. In order to train a monitor, and sir that is so very easy to do. You should UNDERSTAND what a real monitor is. In order to do that, YOU must first take a monitor throught its paces, that is, at least thru its normal life events. To hatch, grow to adulthood in a normal fashion, BE A contributing adult and recruit, and then become post reproductive and die. Of course each area is full of its own important events. But if you did that you would understand what conditions are needed to allow them to achieve normal natural results.

In simple terms(very simple to me) Before you DERANGE their behaviors(what your doing) Its base to understand what their normal behaviors are. But again, I see nothing wrong with what your doing(deranging their natural tendencies) As long as you allow them to ALSO do whats natural to them. For instance, all Sea Worlds and the like, including such institutes as the San Deigo zoo, are not doing animals SHOWS. Animals shows are a display of deranged natural behaviors. But when no doing a show, those fine folks are trying as best they can to allow their entertainers to be as normal as they can provide. Much harder with a whale then a monitor.

So if you are of decent mind, Please try and understand the wonderful animals your working with. The first step is to take them through their normal life events. If you fail to do so, then you do not understand what conditions are actually needed to do so.

Also understand, I could careless if you kill of your savs, I am numbed to folks doing so. Many many thousand are doing so as we speak. The problem is, your a squeaky wheel. You seem to not have the ability to keep what your doing to yourself. If you did, sooner or later you would come to the realization that its not right(dead monitor in cage) and if you had a heart(and brain) then learn what a monitor really is. Also if for some reason your special(your not yet) and you have the ability to effect what your doing in a successful way. Your being very naive if you think the general monitor keeping public, also has the same ability. The general monitor keeping public does not have the sensitivity god(nature) gave a asteroid, they think taming a monitor is holding it until the decomposing juices drip down their arms. Cheers

Sorry for the poor english, mispelling and other non-important errors.

Unleash the fury, Frank!

Is that the chick that likes to drown her monitors?

I do not care if its a chick, a dude, what country or whatever. As you know, all who mistreat monitors are an equal oppertunity victum, hahahahahahahahahhaha. I don't even care about them mistreating them, but at least keep it to yourself and not teach others.

As I have said, I do not totally disagree with the tricks and stuff, as I think boredom is a big problem with varanids. But the rest is totally off base. As in, a near total lack of understanding.

As you have seen so many times, whenever I mention breeding as a goal, folks get all stupid and lose control. The reason is, their conditions fail to allow the most minimal of events and that is to stay in exsistance. They cannot accept that blame, so they attack me.

Reproduction(to recruit)is a direct connection to staying in exsistance, as an individual, as a colony, as a species. To stay in exsistance is to reproduce. Thats is the PRIME. All things in biology point to that.

Simply put, without the ability to do so, is not allowing that animal to be itself, in a very minimal way. To recruit is the FIRST bottom step to success, not the last or the pinnacle. Of course that is not for you, but for dws and others. Cheers

I had trouble giving away a few extra monitors to reduce my collection a bit, some people cannot keep getting them fast enough to have one alive in their care. What gives??? LOL..
I stopped digging up and hatching ackies a while back, reduced my ackies to 2, 1 flavi-argus, Sobek, and one beardie.
Now Im removing empty cages from my basement, piece by piece...

I don't disagree totally with the teaching of the tricks either. But you are right, she does not realize that they are just deranged natural behaviors. Instead of thinking that it is a modified feeding response, she thinks that they are being affectionate when they 'kiss' for food. Or, when they are prodding her with their snouts, she believes they want petting and cuddling instead of them being inquisitive and/or looking for food...

Cheers,
Ryan
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There are three kinds of people in this world: people who can count and people who can't.

Yea but how many of us understand monitor language???? I think to understand what they do, you must see how its used naturally, like what does poking and proding mean when one monitor does it to another monitor?

In my experience it means to move over fool. You see, the normal method is to give a simple look(the eye) and the offending monitor is supposed to and usually moves over or away. If that does not work, then poking and proding, if that does not work, then a nice little pinch, if that does not work, bite the crapola out of them.

Of course they are like us folks and do not always move when told.

Using pain as a reinforcing tool is not so effective with monitors, they are kinda like cats. If one wants to do something, they are going to do it, even if it kills them and it often does(in nature and in captivity)

I have actually tested giving them a smack(big nasty male lacies) it works for the moment, hahahahahahaha but then the moment passes.

The reality, all behaviors are natural(even if deranged) One must(should) understand them in their real context before the try to define them in another context.

As you may know, I fail to understand why people are so concerned with taming monitors, THEY ARE TAME TO START WITH. Unless you have totally offended them.

Personally, I do not want a subservent monitor. You see, most things with monitors are based on bluff, I am stronger, you are not. When that subject comes up. You can make they submissive, but what is that all about? I want my monitors to treat me just like they would treat another monitor. And for the most part they do. The females like me, the males want to have a go sometimes, at others we are buddies, at other times we are partners. They without question partner up to secure prey. They partner up to recruit(bond) nest, protect the nest, etc.

I think most want to make them into something they are not(dogtame, etc) it gives them a feeling of power of a supposed dominate animal. Cheers

chuckle or two.

I hadn't considered the poking and prodding of other monitors. But, now that I think about it, I remember similar things with mine. Once, I believe, after some poking and prodding, one animal latched on and pulled the other out of a burrow.

But you are right, most of us here don't know crap about what monitor behavior and language means (I definitely don't). But to do this, you must keep them in a way that you can observe their natural behaviors best. That is, in care in which they can perform normal life events. This should be done before people try to modify the behaviors they don't even know exist. But heck, why would you want to modify those behaviors anyways? Watching them is interesting enough for me.

I too agree with the tame bit. My ackies were great when they were very small babies. But, I must have offended them down the road (I know I did). Now, one of them is still great and inquisitive and not flighty, unless I spook it. The other is quite the opposite. Of course, neither one of them are biters, as I try to refrain from any offensive behaviors now.

Hey, have you ever had any of the smaller species treat you as an equal? Thanks.

Cheers,
Ryan
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There are three kinds of people in this world: people who can count and people who can't.

Something they cannot comprehend..
10 months time..


One year later..

A year or so later.

A few months ago (thats 68lbs of husky 2 feet away)..

Just recently..

Oh for size reference as to how big 68lbs of husky is...

A question on feeding:

I noticed you saying to feed the animal as much as it will eat daily... Um, are you sure thats right?

I mean, Ive heard of obessity in monitors and I know for a fact that my lizard will eat until he cannot fit anymore in his belly, then try to eat more. Ive seen him down 7 live, adult feeder mice in one sitting and come back looking for more.

On one hand, I dont think I have the $$ to pay for 6-8 adult mice per day (in my area at present, live adult feeder mice are $2.30/piece= (2.3*6 mice)*7 days= $96 a week on feeder mice alone!). And since my animal wont eat frozen mice, I dont really know what I can do about this situation.

And on the other hand, is it really healthy to "power feed" your animal like that? In nature, these animals wouldnt likely have 5-6 mice simply thrown to them. Granted, my animal still has to chase down and kill these mice, but its not like hes running over a large open plain chasing them down. Typically, he just posts up and waits for the mouse to get close, then nails it and swallows it down. I doubt this method of feeding gives much exercise, so I cant see how it could be healthy to feed more than they would recieve in the wild, while at the same time removing most of the exercise they would recieve.

Basically, it seems like youd be just pounding food into the animal while it lays around, much like a fat man eatting 3 chickens in a day and not moving from the couch.

I cant say I really have all that much experience, but if Im not trying to push my animal to hit its maximum size, it appears healthy and I see no signs of distress or excessive hunting behavior, why would I increase the feedings?

My Nile spends much of its day either lounging on a large log that spans out over its water-pond area or in one of its 2 hide spots. The only time I really see it move is when it goes into its hide to sleep at night, or when it moves to the water/shade for thermoregulation.

This brings up another subject:

Does anyone have any suggestions for "amusing" my monitor?

In nature, these animals are very curious and extremely intelligent, which leaves me to wonder if my animal gets bored from time to time.

I try to mix up his food sources, so he has a challenge in catching his meals (ie, while mice only run on the ground, geckos can go vertical, some animals can swim, etc). Granted, I know reptiles probably dont get bored like we humans do, and probably enjoy sitting around most of the day- still, for an animal that would normally be wandering the African scrub, I feel life in a glass cage must be somewhat dull.

Any thoughts?

While mine are growing at 1/4 inch per day, i am not concerned that they may be overeating (except they don't get offered much fat). As they'd eat 6 - 8 mice daily, of course they are offered cheaper substitutes as well. I don't know what is 'powerfeeding' unless it means 'eating all you want'.

because i measure them every few days, i will see when their growth slows. When they stop growing they will get a new diet that restricts caloric intake. Every vertebrate tested responds to a calorie restricted diet by achieving a longer maximum life.
Adjusting diet to suit requirements should be standard practice with any pet.

By rationing, it is possible to have a 3 year old sav that is smaller than an unrationed yearling. Or, by not rationing, you can get a yearling that's larger than a rationed 3 yr old. However you wish to look at it, it's the same thing.

This is a mechanism that works to govern growth rate. It's up to you how you use it. If you want maximum growth, then while they are growing, don't ration them. If you want to restrict their growth rate, then do ration accordingly. Measure them and you can tweak the feeding to precisely the rate you wish.

A monitor has no idea what is natural. They aren't so mentally sophisticated they have imaginations about it. They take what they get and accept it as normal. Habits are as powerful as instincts, so my concept of 'establishing normalcy' gives a keeper/trainer a powerful tool that renders it inconsequential whether the animal had a flock or herd of pack or whether it was raised in a nest by a mother. We are all creatures of habit. All habits are learned. The keeper has complete control over what his charges can learn. Even with intention, a habit is difficult to break. Monitors can not conceive of such intention, so a habit they have learned is very reliable. Good habits are virtually unbreakable. Bad habits are also. That is why to teach them young.

Your beliefs: "so my concept of 'establishing normalcy' gives a keeper/trainer a powerful tool that renders it (the lizard)inconsequential"

So how many eggs are you up to this year?

Good luck - Mike

That do not have the ability to make use of the food they consume. I could show you a monitor kept by someone I know (in the past), that was fed once a week, once every 2 weeks when young, but it was fat, and small.
I could show you a bosc I had many years ago (when I kept them) that grew from 6 inches to 40 inches in 1 years time in my care, this lizard was in my care until a vets "experimenting" put a big nail in his coffin. This lizard was by far larger than any bosc Ive ever seen, he was 54 inches. But keep in mind he was only 10-11 lbs, bosc are supposed to be like that.
I could show you several albigs Ive had that grew from hatchling size and from around 2ft to almost 5ft or more in months alone. These were also wild caught lizards, so comparing my little girl Sobek is one of another comparisons.
Keep in mind during this time period of big time growth I fed these lizards, the examples were kept them in ways that allowed them to achieve this growth. Lots of food, in fact with several albigs I had 5-9 mice a day at 3ft long was a normal easy thing to wear off with proper conditions.

That was a well written description of the enclosure. It sounds (by your description) that your animal is quite healthy. You should up the temps in the basking areas a bit(120-140F) and offer a few spots for him/her to chose from. Also, if the lizard is eating and shedding consistently, then it is growing. They grow by cell division as do snakes and us. This rate, in their case, will be determined by environmental conditions. Also, they do have a tendency to show less dramatic growth rates once they get out of that initial "baby" stage so if you are viewing it daily(as you should be) you will find this growth to be less noticeable. Again, temps up, keep feeding daily and look for consistent shedding of skin (he/she will seem to always be peeling somewhere on it's body)...

Ok, Im glad to hear it isnt in an unhealthy condition.

At my last home, my Nile was on display and we were within visual distance of each other for most of the day. Now he has a room to himself (besides a few geckos) and seems abit more flighty. Id like to see him calm down abit, at least to the point that I could handle him abit better, just for vet visits and other travel. But as you said, its natural Nile behavior to be feisty and I dont want to push the animal, so Ill just leave it be for now.

Is there any way to tell sex externally, short of seeing a sex organ?

Ive rearranged the enclosure abit today, creating 2 hiding spaces and increasing the substrate level. Ive also worked out a way to cycle the lights so that theres a basking spot of about 130 degrees during the day, with ambient temps of around 85. At night im going to move the heat lights in such a way as to have the ambient temp around 70, with a temp of 92-5 degrees in one hiding space and a temp of around 80 in the other.

The setup I have now uses a screen top that I built myself out of heavy guage wire mesh and wood. Its served well so far, is VERY sturdy, and since the animal dosnt seem too interested in hanging upside down on the screen, im going to let it go for now.

The filter is side-mounted unit designed for fish tanks, that sits on the side of the tank and has a tube that drops down into the water. This creates a waterfall of its own, but I have an artificial plant hanging from the top that stops the water from splashing, which keeps the water still and lets floating water plants grow without splashing about.

The main reason id thought of adding the screen top was to include a large climbing structure, even though I dont think Niles spend ALOT of time in the trees (juvies prolly do im guessing?). I had 2 Niles before I moved, and my last one I kept in the 2, 65-gallon screen cages- she seemed to love it. Running up and down the walls of the enclosure seemed to give it alot of exercise and the cage held up pretty well (granted, I had to change out the screening once in a 1.5 year time span).

I have a digital camcorder and am trying to get a tape of my Nile eatting a house gecko right this minute, so maybe ill have some pics of it soon. Hes also eatten about 6 small fish (mollys) and a crayfish or 2 today.

Also, any advice on getting my animal to feed out of a dish? Id like to start giving him some worms/super worms on occasion and I dont want them burrowing into the soil and it would be helpful for giving prepared mixtures (ie, the turkey/egg mixture on the LLL reptile website:http://lllreptile.com/info/library/general-care-and-husbandry/-/notes-on-the-feeding-of-monitor-lizards/).

A few other minor questions:

1. What do you suggest for substrate?

Right now im using a mixture of things, about 1/5 vermiculite, 2/5 bedabeast and 2/5 cypress(i think) bedding, with varying size gravel/pebbles underneath, and a wall of rocks/gravel-pebbles seperating this from the land area. Its kept moist, as some water manages to span the whole length of the cage. My animal seems to enjoy it, as it digs constantly and has made a series of ever changing burrows. Ive been thinking adding some sand might be good, to keep the moisture from getting out of control.

2. What would you suggest as my next monitor choice?

Im interested in purchasing another monitor once I get this guy settled into a larger environment. I like the look of peach throats, as they arent quite as expensive as some of the other tree monitors (black, blue, emerald). Id appreciate any input.

3. Feeder Options?

My feeder options are abit limited in the area where I live (adult feeder mice are 2.30 a piece!). Adult mice are one of my main staples, but they are expensive, as I prefer feeding live (usually incapacitated) feeders. Fish are another option, but again, expensive, as Ive heard that feeder goldfish lack much nutritional value so I tend to go with other, hardier varieties (large danios, mollys, swordtails and other similar fish). Occasionally I mix it up and pay the $7 for a feeder lizard, which my Nile seems to enjoy. I used to have access to roaches, which my monitor also enjoyed.

Lately, Ive been offering crayfish, and my Nile eats them up like lobster. They are inexpensive and easily obtained from a local fish store. Ive also offered feeder shrimp and snails, both of which were gobbled up. Im planning a way to get a breeding population of crayfish going in a small aquarium.

My animals tastes are varied. Ive seen it swallow Dojo eels 4-5" long with little difficulty, as well as large tadpoles. Any aquatic animal is usually hunted down and consumed within a 24 hour period. Its also killed and consumed a small ribbon snake that I offered it (Nile was about 24" long and the snake was about 8" long). In typical Nile fashion, it grabbed the snake behind the neck and proceeded to batter it about the cage with a passion.

Its also eatten feeder anoles. When I offer anoles (and only anoles mind you, i dont notice this with house geckos), my animal runs them down and grasps them, then proceeds to chew through the head until it is literally detached from the body. It swallows the head and then moves to the body, consuming it as well. Has anyone else ever noticed anything like this?

Ive also noticed my animal drowning prey, especially large feeder roaches. It would hold the roach underwater in its mouth until it stopped moving, then would proceed to break up the armored shell and swallow it down. Has anyone ever seen this?

Do you have any suggestions on a low cost feeder? Perhaps a link or some info regarding getting a breeding population of mice/rats/roaches going?

4. Can someone provide a basic building plan for a Nile enclosure?

i have some ideas, but id like someone elses input on how they think it should be built. Ill use this to come up with a layout and run it by the forum.

Side note:
This is a picture of the animal (named Wander Lust, for its tendancy in youth to escape its cage mysteriously), taken in Fall of 06'(approx). Its put on quite abit of girth in the midsection since and its overall length has probably increased about 4-5 inches.

Raise your temps. 80-95, 130-150 basking. Forget about plants waterfalls, fish tanks and screen whatever. The best thing you could do is build that big cage immediately. The experience I have had with my niles is that they don't take to a lot of changes very well. Maybe others are different but the less you mess around with cage changing and general handling the better off they are.

Roger

OMFG This a contentious forum. Great. I just hope I don't have too many beers before I post or I'm likely to be deleted for telling somebody to #@^&% off.

Niler Keeper, I admire your interest in how to better care for your monitor and your use of an internet forum to seek advise and ideas.

I can't offer any because I will be posting here for the same reason as you. I'm a successful snake keeper for many years and have developed an interest in monitors. I had the opurtunity to babysit for a 4' BlackThroat and really enjoyed the creature. I just purchased a 7" baby and am seeking strategies and opinions on successful monitor keeping.

At least there are many knowledgeable and experienced people here who truly care about raising a healthy animal, even though their methods seem to vary. Therein lies the quandry and that will keep this forum intesting. I don't think I have had a more enjoyable thread on any subject in years.

As I post in the future I hope I don't bore you guys with previously covered topics. I come with no agenda except to find the best way to have a healthy and large animal. I don't need to cuddle it, just want to be healthy and large.

Have a few more beers you'll fit right in. Lots of good info and rarely a dull moment.

Roger