Reptile & Amphibian Forums

In an earlier post, I mentioned I had commonly seen blood during breeding, but the posted image (by someone asking a question) was worse than I'm used to seeing. I still didn't think it was anything to cause alarm - it just seemed like a lot to me, BUT it was on newspaper. I mentioned that maybe it looks worse on newspaper than in really is....

Then I saw this girl right after copulation. Lots of blood. Smear that flat on paper instead of clotted up on shavings, and it WOULD look like a murder. I had just never thought of it that way before since I don't keep on paper.

Sooo, this one looks like it might have bled worse than yours (whoever posted that thread a couple of daus ago), but it is still nothing that should cause any alarm.

Still something I HATE to see. I always think "poor girl" when I see it. I do wonder how often it is the MALE bleeding, though. I've never seen evidence to think it was the male, but it HAS to happen sometimes.

KJ

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KJUN Snakehaven

Well, it definately makes you wonder if its painful... maybe she was a born again virgin (JUST KIDDING) and yours looks pretty fresh. the picture misty posted looked a lil dried out- maybe from the paper too... but i've always read its usually rare and real light- not heavy and clotted-- maybe its something in the water?? we'll have to keep a poll.... hmmm interesting..
~kinion
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~Sober Serpents~
Corns, Creamsicles, A Black Rat, Thayeri, Cal Kings, A Jungle Corn(Just A Pet), A Bearded dragon, Leopard Geckos, a Snapping turtle, and a white cheeked mud turtle

Strange thing on the male that bred that one. Normally, there is no blood. This year, he has breed 3 females. No blood on one (2 or 3 copulations - I'd have to check my records), blood once on another (2 copulations), and blood both times on the third female.

He has at least one more female I plan to breed him to (goal is 3 copulations on that cross) once that female sheds. i'm curious to see if he causes her to bleed this time or not. Coincidentally, the later copulations had the blood.

Maybe he's just taken a liking for kinky stuff???
KJ
KJUN Snakehaven

If you dont mind, what kind of corns(or snakes) were they that bred? i want to do a personal note just to see if there is any similarities.... i know i'm a dork.. but if a regular person had a pair of snakes and saw this they'd freak! I'm no Kathy Love, but if i figure anything odd out, i'll post my findings
thanks for your time!!
~kinion
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~Sober Serpents~
Corns, Creamsicles, A Black Rat, Thayeri, Cal Kings, A Jungle Corn(Just A Pet), A Bearded dragon, Leopard Geckos, a Snapping turtle, and a white cheeked mud turtle

>>If you dont mind, what kind of corns(or snakes) were they that bred? i want to do a personal note just to see if there is any similarities.... i know i'm a dork.. but if a regular person had a pair of snakes and saw this they'd freak! I'm no Kathy Love, but if i figure anything odd out, i'll post my findings

Heck, I've had it happen in all types of corns over the last 10-15 years. I can see it happening when male Jungle corns are involved, but I refuse to work with known hybrids. (Yuck.) There were, to the best of my knowledge) pure cornsnakes. The male was an amel "Zagtec" het AnerB. The female in that image was an unrelated amel partial zigzag. The other female that bleed when bred to him this time around was a sibling AnerB "Zagtec" het amel. The one that he bred earlier that didn't bleed was a sibling Blizzard.

They only come to mind because it was so much following that previous post. I don't remember if I've seen (less) blkood in other ones this year yet.
KJ
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KJUN Snakehaven

Wow,.....I've never witnessed anything like that before, or ever recall hearing/reading anything about this type of situation......I wonder just what exactly is the cause!,...I'm sure you want to know as well!lol........I wonder if the male is like the "John Holmes" of the cornsnake world, or what!? seems for sure that one or the other is rupturing something up inside. In any case, I hope they are both okay!!!......When she had eggs before, did she do any bleeding at all?.....................Doug
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Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!

>>In any case, I hope they are both okay!!!

They seem it. He willingly bred the next day. She bred again 2 days later. (I bred him 4 days in a row and alternate the last 2 females so they were each bred on alternate days.) I could check the exact dates, but the final breeding was 3 or 4 days ago, and the male and female both ate last night. You wouldn't know there had been blood just looking at them. Again, it sure LOOKS bad - especially on paper like that previous image - but it doesn't seem to be any cause for alarm.

>> ......When she had eggs before, did she do any bleeding at all?.....................Doug

You mean when she bred? That albino was purchased in September 05 as an adult. Not sure if she was proven or not, but she was a big adult. I suspect she was a proven adult. Anyway, i bred her in 2006. I don't remember there being blood, but I don't keep records of those things. There could have been, and I wouldn't necessarily remember it. Sorry. Egg laying was normal - lots of good eggs - for a first and a second clutch. No blood when laying eggs. I don't think I've ever seen that except in a single case of a snow corn that prolapsed an ovary while laying eggs.

By the way, the snow was a few years ago, and she is still alive. Lost the ovary, and I never have put her with a male since then.

KJ
KJUN Snakehaven

Hmmm,...very strange indeed,....at least she didn't bleed when she layed the eggs. It makes me wonder if the male is rupturing some blood vessels(for whatever reason) in one of his hemipenes, and it just "looks" horrible!.....really, I don't see any way to know for a fact exacly what's going on either, as it would take exploratory surgery....In any case I hope they continue to stay as healthy as possible for you........good luck with some nice babies!.................................Doug
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Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!

My thoughts have always been that a male will occasionally cut the female with those spines. If you've never seen the spines on a fully engorged hemipenis, you can't begin to imagine how painful they look. I've had them penetrate latex gloves and poke my fingers hard enough to bring pinpricks (no pun intended) of blood to the surface. (That was a DOR coachwhip that I was in the process of preserving.) If the females move, i'm surprised they ALL don't bleed. It is nasty!

Hmmmm, once it warms up, I might take an image of engorged hemepenes from the first DOR Kisatchie corn of Texas ratsnake I come across. it is EDUCATIONAL.

Not a cornsnake, but look at the below image. Realizing that organ is full of spikes, wouldn't it make you bleed? LOL.

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KJUN Snakehaven

Yeah,...I gotta' say, the hemipene is indeed a very grotesque looking organ!...with the different weird lobe configurations and all!.....they remind me of of some sort of weird desert cactus!lol..I've seen lots of specimen pics(tied-off to engorge) but never actually got "pricked" by one!(again, no pun intended!lol)........anyway, hope there is never a problem with either one of them.......good luck!,............................Doug
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Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!

here are pics of the blood found in the cage. It was starting to dry, but was still wet. I had checked on the snakes about two hours before.
The other pics are of a mating of king snakes. The female has a history of getting tired of the male before he is done mating. Usually she drags him around the cage. This time, she was trying to "push him out", but he was locked in with those spurs. The snake hemipene is coated in barbs. Kinda neat looking, and makes me thankful I am not a snake!! lol

here is the pic that you can start to see the barbs inside the female (she is the black one).

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************SNEAKY SERPENTS****************

www.sneakyserpents.com

Elk Grove
California

>...Kinda neat looking, and makes me thankful I am not a snake!! lol...

Second That!

JD
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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"
0.1 Black Rat (WV Rescue) "Roberta"

yeah that is crazy, I have never seen anything like that before.
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South Texas Herps