Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi.

I am going to get a Malayan Water Monitor in a few months. I have plenty of space, know how much time and money they require, and am an experienced herper who currently have 19 herps. While I do not have direct experience with monitors, I do know what I'm getting into. So let's get to the point of the question.

There is no question in my mind that monitors, especially the larger ones which consume rodents in captivity (as vs. the smaller species which are fed primarily on rodents) and thus get adequate vitamin D3 through their diets, do not require UVB to SURVIVE. It has been done time and time again where monitors are raised with no UVB and only incandescent lighting that lead healthy lives.

However, there is some debate over whether UVB given to monitors will change their behaviour, and the brightness of their color.

Firstly, I would like to know, for those who have experience with this, what behaviourial changes, if any, were seen in your monitors with UVB? I ask because behavior changes are not always good. If the UVB makes them more aggressive, restless, really realy horny or bite everything that moves, then I'd rather do without the UVB. However, if it makes them happier, more tame and calmer, that's a different story.

Secondly, is the color change significant? If UVB does make their skin brighter colored, does this also translate into better health?

Thirdly, do you notice that the UVB makes them healthier at all? I mean, I know that it has been shown that it is not VITAL, but something that isn't vital for life doesn't mean that it is not beneficial at all. However, I don't want to just provide it "just in case" as it can be damaging as well. I know that UVB is available from the sun in nature, but just because its available doesn't mean that its necessarily good and should be provided. For example, humans live in urban areas and are exposed to toxic fumes from factories and cars. We don't die (at least not right away) from them, but this doesn't mean that if I were to keep a human as a pet, I should pump his enclosure with these gases just in case either.

So I would really like to know from those who have used UVB with monitors, how it affects the behaviour, health and color of the lizards. Thanks!

Why don't you get two malaysian waters, raise one with UVB and one without and let us know what happens? I personally don't use UVB for my monitor or my tegus and have had no problems yet.

I can't imagine it causing a change in temperament but I don't have any clue about coloration.

People that sit in the sun all day get tan, and some would perceive them as more beautiful but are they more or less healthy than someone who isn't tan? hmm..

I keep a UVB bulb for my Nile on a timer, coming on at sunrise and going off at around sunset. On the same timer is the main basking light (not the heat lights, which are different schedules altogether), though its angled so it hits alot more of the cage. I do this because my animals dont have access to natural sunlight,so I figured Id give them the best synthetic version I can produce.

Does it help? Couldnt tell ya. But until I hear someone say to not do it, it seems to be working. Helps keep the floatin plants alive too.

I know UV light is used by other reptiles for mating/territorial disputes but I dont know if monitors are included in that (id assume they are).

Id like to know myself- if its no good, Ill just switch it to one of my little guys, or save it for another tank.

This is always a huge topic.But think of it this way monitors come out in the sun in the wild so i use the UVB,some people don't and there monitors are fine,but if monitors didn't need any sun they would most likly hunt at night.I always use UVB,all my monitors and tegu's plus my vet said its good i use it and worked for me now for 17 years.

How do you reckon they would go about basking and reaching high temps at night?

If thats to me, via the 2 heat lamps that are going 24/7.

During the day, the stronger one is placed near the basking light (high watt UVA "reptile basking" light), which gets the basking spot temp up to where it needs to be. The weaker one is placed towards the other side of the cage to help keep the ambient temp up.

At night though, the basking light goes off. Since my lizard usually spends its nights sleeping in one of the 2 hides/burrows it has, I move both the heat lights to over one of the burrows.

This brings up the temp in one of the burrows, provides a warm basking spot, and lets the ambient temp in the cage drop quite abit. It still has the other cooler burrow. Plus, its water "pond" is one the other side of the cage, which can cool it off easily.

If that wasnt to me, sorry for blabbin.

Great pics btw.

Why do you move the lights around to the burrows and such? Offer them a large range of temps and let them go where they want.

Nothing would bother me more if I was trying to relax in a nice cool spot than a huge ball of heat stuck right next to me.

Plus, isn't that a huge pain in the neck to move all the time?

I move them so that it can have a wide range of temps.

Basically, theres 3 lights: 1 is "basking light" which produces a good amount of heat and light; theres also 2 red heat lights of different sizes (its either 75 and 100 watt or 75/150).

During the day, to keep the ambient temp in the cage up, I keep the smaller heat light on one side of the cage and the large heat light in the middle of the cage. Right next to the large heat light is the basking light.

That gives a nice high temp basking spot towards the middle of the cage, with a warmer side on one side and a cooler side on the other (which is where the water is).

At night the basking light is turned off. The 2 heat lights remain on, but I just move them alittle bit so as to give the animal a choice of its 2 burrows- 1 is always hot and one is cooler (its always the same ones).

Also, that concentrates the heat in one location, keeping a warm basking spot and letting the ambient temp throughout the cage drop (seeing as its night).

I suppose I could just leave the heat lights where they are all the time, but it tends to stay abit warm at night when I do and my animal usually ends up sleeping in its water. If I move them like I do, it can choose to crash in its "warm" burrow or its "cool" burrow, and still has a wide range of temps to choose from.

Its because most keepers are narcessisistic, they think its all about them and the monitors do not have a brain to make their own decisions. That is were this huge problem starts. There is no faith in the animals, its all about us. Well, as you know, I have unending faith in the animals and I fully understand, we are not all that smart(myself included)(about them) If I can create something they can perform as monitors in(make monitor decisions) and take me out of the picture, thats exactly what I want to do.

The funny part is, that is a whole lot easier then making every decision for them. Cheers

First off i never said they could bask at night,second everybody has there own way which they use Uvb,or no UVB.

May I ask, You said it worked, I ask, worked doing what? What did the UV actually achieve????

In this case, we are talking monitors, what did the monitors do?

I know a fellow in your position, he to kept all type of lizards on UV bulbs, once O convinced him that heat allows the metabolism of minerals not UV’s, a year later I asked how his lizards are doing, Steeve to be honest I started the UV bulbs within a few weeks because my lizards lost there nice coloration.
What he failed to understand was how different light spectrum reflects colors differently, his lizards never lost colors, but they looked different under incandescent lights.

The why color looks to my eye is the only justification for using any type of bulbs, it’s the only reason I don’t condemn these prohibitly expensive gadgets.

On a side note, most keepers fail to see the 5-10 degree increase these bulbs allows, this subtle temps often allow the lizards to metabolise properly, of course the benefit is automatically attributed to UV, nonsense!

Funny how we can discus this 1000 times and see no progression in peoples husbandry, makes one wonder why even try?

Hi there. I am just trying to find out about this. Just starting out with monitors. We all have to start somewhere. Of course, as you probably agree, I DID research plenty before I posted. Sometimes it is hard to piece together because the experienced people start their discussions assuming a base of knowledge, which people starting out with monitors may not have, even if they are seasoned with other herps.

So this means that if I don't care about how the lizard looks under the lights specifically, that the UVB bulbs will not do anything at all, right?

Pretty much yes.

No its not needed for any reason.
Also, most that do start out with UV bulbs do not replace them. If you read the label, they lose their effectiveness after about 30 days. So in order to keep them useable, you have to replace them. and most do not. They simple move on to regular bulbs. Cheers

Thanks Frank. No UVB it is then. Save some money.

Here are some pictures showing color of my non UV using monitors. I will put them up against anyone using UV anyday.

Proper diet and temps goes along way, a healthy monitor is colorful. A non healthy monitor is dull. One that is warm will show brighter lighter colors then one that is cool.

That's some beautiful stuff there!!! Jeff

Jody I have an adult pair of deep blue rudicolis, sins I got them as adults and have never seen any like this before, I wonder if they where light blue like yours when young, is yours becoming more blue or less as it grows??

rgds

The color is staying about the same, it was not like this when I first got it. But it colored up in no time.

I see Jody is still painting his lizards. hahahaha
What I don't get is all the talk about brighter colors.
Every reptile I have, with the exception of the water turtles, are always dirty. In my book, a dirty lizard is a happy lizard.

Scott
-----
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

SCREAMING(in pain)

A uv bulb is like a pimple compared to a volcano. A Uv bulb is not the sun, its nothing like the sun. Its a friggin litebulb. i know that and the lizards know that.

UVA and UVB penetrate deep, thats why they are cancer causing. For us and for animals. Varanid skin is designed to reflect UVA AND UVB. Not absorb it.

UV bulbs are used in leiu of proper husbandry(suitable temp range) UV allows the converison of D to d-3(or whatever it does) at unsuitably low temps. At suitable temps, UV is avoided my lizards. At those low temps, many other normal tasks cannot be completed, thats why its unsuitable. At the high end of a reptiles range is where many events take place, including the D vitamin conversion. As well as the immune system and more.

In my humble opinion, Uv bulbs is a bandaid fix and has held back successful varanid and lizard husbandry. Throw the stupid bulbs out and learn to keep lizards.

And for those who do not know, I have rasied hundreds of generations(of dozens of species) of geckos, chams, torts, agamids, other types of lizards, varanids etc etc etc, without UV bulbs of any type.

About color, monitors exposed to the sun, develop a tan(orangish) it goes totally away with each shed. It functions the same as are skin when it tans, Its to help REFLECT the damaging effects of UV.

By the way, I keep monitors, inside(their whole lifes) inside/outside(they choose) and outdoors(their whole adult life) I have been doing so for over 16 years. Guess what, the indoor monitors are the healthist and most productive.

Oh again by the way, color is a direct relationship to health. Cheers

I agree that too much is made of the UVA/UVB issues. But, I would like to ask if there is science behind the idea that monitors don't need any exposure for D3 synthesis. Humans need something like 15 minutes a week of unfiltered sunlight for D3 synthesis. I would like to know if there is proof that temperature is all that is needed. By proof I mean a qualitative and quantitative study that looks at levels of D3 production in relation to temperatures. Anecdotal advice and experience are helpful, but I am curious of the science behind it.

Thanks, AH

First, why do you need science to explain something thats successfully done on a daily basis, and has been for decades.

Particularly when science has not really had a need to explain it.

From my point, I am a keeper, I could give a flying donut hole, if science explains what we do on a daily basis. I imagine a rancher could not care what a university student/phd, says about cattle. Specially in the case that we are having success. Of course if we were failing, we would run to science for help. Again, we are not failing.

Also what bothers me is this. Many of you(not necessarily you) think if you read it in words, its better then seeing it in action. You do understand words are only a small slice of any action. In this case, many of us are merily breeding a raising monitors. To breed them you must meet their needs, to raise them you must meet their needs. And newbies read a petshop book/mag that says you need this and that(to sell dry goods) and you believe it. Ok, I understand thats how our society works. Well, you don't need it. Your better off learning what they DO NEED, not worrying about what they don't need.

Here on this forum and other forums you can see generations upon generations of monitors hatched and raised successfully without the use of UV bulbs. They are simply a waste of your money, money that could be spent for something they do need. You know, better cages, more food, etc.

But then, THAT choice is yours. Good luck

Well..... wih most of us, whether we realize it or not, science is a way of life. I personally was in the zoo field for over 12 years and prided myself at making observations that helped the animals under my care. After the fact, all the things I did could be explained scientifically.

Some people just like to work the other way, science first, because they don't have the time or the observation skills to figure things out on their own. Some would suggest that those people should just listen to experienced keepers, but one of the first things I learned nearly 30 years ago is what works for one person may not work for another.

So, if we know the science behind something, there is less room for error. The science behind something like vitamin needs and synthesis will not vary depending on other husbandry parameters. Until an idea can be proved on the cellular, metabolic level, it's still just one guys idea. It has nothing to do with having to "read" it. I have a lot of ideas, but science is needed to isolate all the other variables to make my idea valid.

All that said, I still suggest people listen to experienced advice as a starting point .... even if the science isn't there yet. ( Originally, I just really wanted to know if there was actually anything published yet on your ideas. Maybe I'll work on my Ph.D.)

Later..

First, I am not suggesting anyone do anything. In fact, all I do is wonder why folks do what they do. For instance, if someone was doing what I wanted to do, and they did it successfully, I would copy them. Then I would personalize it, then figure out the whys and wherefores.

What is odd to me is this particular subject is not even something we should talk about. For instance, if science said, UV is absolutely needed. All it would take is one exception to break that rule/theory. In this case, there is without question, a tidal wave of exceptions, in fact, there are very very few successful varanids raised with UV bulbs. The vast majority of varanid success is obtained sans UV bulbs.

Consider, "success" is to achieve normal lifes events. To hatch, to grow within a normal fashion, to recriut in a normal fashion and then of course die. Most husbandry, omits the first ones and goes right to the last one, specially academic keeping.

I have taken generation after generation of many species of varanid specie through lifes events. All without any concern for UV bulbs. Yet, those who question this, are merely attempting to have their monitors see another day. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm Don't these folks get that, to achieve lifes events, the monitors must see many many days and see them in good health.

So no, this is not about science, its not about understanding science. Its more about folks hooked on commerial advertising or some other non-husbandry related personal reasons.

When this question is asked, folks have no idea why they are asking it. I think they simply want to cover the bases. But they don't know what the bases are. So no matter what they are told, its not going to work anyway. No matter how science explains it, right wrong or indifferent, its of no effect. And sadly, no matter how I explain it, they still fail.

The reason is, the same folks(petshops, mags, books) that recomended UV bulbs, also recomended a screen top, a hide log, and water bowl. And suboptimal non proven husbandry. Wait I am wrong, its absolutely proven. Proven to fail.

Which means, if you do not have the science in context with the task, that science is useless. And that sir is the problem. Science does not provide information on this subject in the context of keeping monitors in captivity with the goal of the monitors achieving lifes minimal(normal) events.

Oh by the way, I have bred reptiles of many types continiously since 62. And I have had varanid eggs in the incubator without missing a day, since 91. Which means, I am doing something right(when compared to other people), and I do not use UV bulbs. I am not bragging, as i do not believe that is something to brag about. After all, these animals have been doing this successfully for tens of thousands of years. I believe if I cannot achieve at least minimal life events, then I suck. Remember, they are designed to succeed.

I do understand, that all lite bulbs emitt about the same spectrum, and the only difference is the reflective coating, that reflects in a certain wavelenght in a certain direction and absorbs others. In reality, those wave lenghts do not go away, they are still in our cages. Which most likely means, a normal bulb is not a whole lot different then a UV bulb. Oh except price. Particularly when you compare all these bulbs to the sun. They are all WAYYYYYYY down here in a little range, and the sun, isssssssssssssssssssss wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy up there with a totally different set of properties. So, what say you? Cheers

I actually agree with 99% of what you say. When I was a young keeper at the 3 zoos I worked at, I was the rogue who did things differently than everyone else. I watched the animals and the parts of the enclosures they utilized and when and for how long. Other keepers would put banks of lights and heat bulbs on the cages and I would come in and see the boa pressed against the glass trying to find alternative places to rest.
I know your methods work for most of the species you have tried them on. I am a biologist and I always ask "why?" It is just part of being curious. If it weren't for curiosity, we may not have come out of the caves. I am curious as to WHY these extremely high temperatures in captivity work. Not all species are out during the middle of the day. Some are crepuscular, so they would never experience anywhere near those temps in the wild. Yet they live and breed. Why???
I understand you are not interested in the "why", only that it works. But please realize that the "why" people do indeed contribute a great deal to all aspects of our lives. I'll let you hatch out all the monitors in the world. I just want to know why?

Of course I am interested in the Y's, but most of you, and unless you show me different, that includes you, do not have the ability to understand the Y's.

I say this is not about science, the reason is, to succeed with monitors does not need to be scientific. And its not about science. Actually science has nothing to do with it.

In fact, science has failed you. Its a false belief in science that is causing monitors to continue to be the last frontier of NON success. All other types of reptiles are successfully kept/bred, yet monitors are still a giant brick wall of failure.

This is the part that bothers the heck out of me. Its not about being a good scientist, its only about being a good servant. You just have to be a good servant. Stop thinking and do, just serve the monitors(provide for them) YOU DO NOT HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WHY YOUR SERVING. The problem is, you keepers are servants and you think your the boss.

In the mid ninties there was articules in both Vivarium and Reptiles about me and this stuff, there was also articules by several others(all the same stuff) that clearly explained how to keep and breed monitors. Remember, to breed them, it takes normally healthy individuals. There have been books published in many countries. They all explain this stuff.

Yet, you ask for a scientific explination. Well, at this time its kinda like explaining that you have to plug in the fridge in order for it to work. Yes, there is a very long explination for that, but really, just plug the dang thing in. All you have to know, and for most this is all they know, to get the food cold, you must plug in the fridge. Its just that simple, if you want monitors to work, just plug with in. After all, its the working monitors thats what your interested in, or at least thats what you should be interested in.

There are known methods that have produced thousands of babies(they must be healthy to do that)and these methods have been published until you just want to throw up. All you have to do is PLUG them in. ITs that very simple. You do not need all this semi/suedo scientific crapola. Its very very simple, just do it. Do not complicate. Which appears to be a huge problem with monitors, folks make it all kind of complicated.

The problem is all you folks are too smart, you think about all this complicated non-sense. You make keeping monitors intolerable for both you and the monitors. The reality is, its very simple. That makes you doing this, not smart, in fact, it makes it the opposite.

The reason I say this is, while we are having this conversation, I dug up a wonderful clutch of flavi eggs. I missed a clutch two days ago, three days ago a female ackie laid her 17th clutch in a row(record setting) Then I come in and read this forum where people are ASKING, can I use a tank? do you need UV? i am going to feed turkey balls????(?) varied diet, Then show pics of your new setup, you know after you did your research and its a fish tank with a screen top, with indoor/outdoor carpet, a half round artificial piece of wood(?), and a water bowl. A metal lite reflector with a 130 watt UV bulb. And if you really care, a net thing with suction cups that sticks to the back of the tank to hang itself from. DUDE, that is soooooooooo 1980's folks get with it.

This set up(in the pic) was made in 1991, it has raised and produced literally hundreds upon hundreds of monitors of many species(smaller types), Its a tub full of dirt, a bunch of boards(retes boards)(i am retes) a incandesent litebulb. It has a range of temps from cool 75F(i wish i could get it cooler) to bloody hot, 165F. Thats it, thats all you need. Whoops it has a water bowl too.

Scott Sulstead(founder of Vision cages) came up with this saying many years ago, "Heatum and Feedum" as a recipe for varanid success. This cage, heats um, and I feedum. END OF THAT STORY. Thats all thats needed for producing generation upon generation of healthy monitors. You do not need any other commerial items, except the feedum part, crickets and mice. Thats it. Not all that complicated, in fact, bloody simple.

After you provide this simple setup, you can get on with figuring out all the VERY complicated behaviors that healthy monitors do. Not to try and figure out, why its dying.

What is so funny is, I actually was scientific in desiging this cage. I actuall went to Oz and watched the bloody things to see what they do. This cage fits what they do. In this case ackies, which are a normal prototypical monitor, which means, they actually represent all other monitors very well.

They bask when needed, normally very very close to their burrow/crevice/hole. They thermoregulate, mostly out of sight. Behaviorally, they like to stay hidden and have the ability to watch the world around them. They like to ambush feed, that is not have to venture out of their safe places. This picture was published in the mid ninties.

Oh about you referring to being a zoo keeper, no offense, but that does nothing for me, good or bad. You see, I too worked at zoos, maybe 40 of them, some as a keeper and some as a exhibit builder(up to my own company, an AZA member) But all the while I was a field biologist and private breeder. Being a keeper means nothing, as I realize there are good and bad keepers, good and bad zoo departments. In fact, a good one of those is rare. Much like a good varanid keeper. Cheers

Random Question:

Do UVB lights help in plant growth at all, or are they literally just wastes of money?

Thanks for the info- I switched mine out today for another heat light. However, now Ive got this $30 bulb lying around- should I try to return it or should I hold onto it in case I wanna make a vivarium with smaller (non-monitor) species later on?

Its really about that simple.

I do not want to be considered a biologist or anything, but long ago in a far away land(school) I was taught that plants where the base of life, they were because they converted sunlight into useable energy(sugars) Animals/insects etc, consumed this and florished, then other animals ate those animals, then they became predators. Monitors are often top predators.

This magic is called Photosynthesis, guess what, monitors do not do that.

Now consider, plants must be in the sun to recieve sunlight, monitors spend 99% of their lifes in the dark. Cheers

Yeah, if youd read that post, youd see that I switched out my UV light over my monitor for a heat light.

Believe me, I know lizards arent plants. That "circle of life" rant was cute tho.

I was just curious as to whether plants use UV light, not monitors. I mean, I have this expensive lightbulb now that Im not currently using- should I hold onto it (ie, IS it helpful for plants, say I was making a live-plant vivarium[not with monitors]) or should I see if I can return it?

Guess its not really related to this forum, just thought maybe someone would be able to answer it. Real simple question, didnt even want an explanation really, just a "yes" or "nah" would suffice. Thanks.

Please get rid of your monitor, the reason is, to successfully keep monitors, you have to read them. And they are not easy to read. The reason I say this is,

My circle of life rant, was not a rant, it clearly explained that plants need sunlite. Which means, Uv lites are of benefit to plants. You must learn to put two and two together. Don't forget to water the plants, they need water too. Cheers

I periodically suffer from bouts of anxiety and self delusion. One hour of exposure to synthetic UV light seems to improve my mood and my antagonistic disposition. Maybe It's time to bask. Heh Heh.

I put a bank of UV bulbs over my bed, Now I so bright, my papa calls me sun. hahahahahahaha "DOH"

Ok...

First:

"A uv bulb is like a pimple compared to a volcano. A Uv bulb is not the sun, its nothing like the sun. Its a friggin litebulb."

Second:

" I was taught that plants where the base of life, they were because they converted sunlight into useable energy(sugars)..."

Third:

"...it clearly explained that plants need sunlite. Which means, Uv lites are of benefit to plants..."

So, first you say that a UV bulb is nothing like the sun.

Then you go on to explain how you were taught in school about the whole photosynthetic cycle, by which plants use light from the sun to survive.

Finally, you end by saying that a UV bulb is helpful to plants, the reason behind this being that they need the sun to survive(which a uv bulb is "nothing like" ).

So, UV bulbs ARE beneficial to plants. Thanks.

Sorry if I couldnt read you well, but sometimes you appear to contradict yourself. I hope you can see how someone could be confused.

Just like with my animal, Ill try to work harder to read into what you're saying.

You obviously are very experienced with these animals.

But there are a large majority of people that simply arent. Those that have no passion for it, well, sadly their animals usually die and they lose what interest they had to begin with.

There are people out there that dont have years of experience- they are in the process of gaining it. Those people are learning slowly, but they'll keep at it and, if they really care and really want to experience these animals, they will make the necessary changes, do the necessary work and gain the necessary experience to help their animals flourish.

One problem Im seeing is that alot of the information provided by various sources is bunk, primarily the people who are selling the animals and even among people on a forum like this, you can easily get a number of different answers.

You need to talk to someone who knows what the hell they're talking about, knows because they've seen it work time and time again.

In a very short time, Ive come to the conclusion that the cage I purchased (and which cost quite a bit of $$) was all wrong.

So what am I doing?

Im building a new one.

My temps were too low- I upped them.

My substrate was wrong- Im changing it.

Im doing this because, instead of "getting rid" of my monitor, aka-pawning my lizard off on the next unsuspecting person to let it be kept poorly/die, I want to take the responsibility and give this animal what it needs to enjoy its life, instead of just washing my hands of it. This will take time, work and a whole lot of money without a doubt, but Im more than willing to do it.

You, my friend are in the minority. Most people are impulse buyers and when the novelty wears off or they realize that monitor keeping involves time and money and some sort of problem solving skills as well as common sense, they do exactly what you said. They pawn them off or simply don't care for them untill they die from neglect. I personally have to respect what you are doing simply because I've been down the same road. When I kept monitors back in the early 90's I did not have the benefit of FR's wisdom so when I got rid of my animals back then I figured they just werent suitable captives and had no real intention of ever getting any more. Then I joined the computer revolution and realized people were actually keeping and even breeding these things and husbandry practices had come a long way from what I was doing back then. So, thanks to this particular gentleman, not mentioning the name again, here we are on the cutting edge.

Roger

Heres the thing, I am not a lady. many of the ladies here want to nurture newbies. They want them to stay keeping monitors and all such non sense. THat is not me. I could only hope to scare off the timid. Send them running, the faster they stop keeping living animals the better. THIS IS NOT SUITED for everyone. A living animals suffers from this newbies, they better have dang good reason to cause these animals harm.

I do hope to seperate the timid and followers, from the ones with passion. The ones with passion will try to get past the problems. They will not let an old grumpy man run them off.

All I can say is, if an old man on the internet can chase you away, you should really go, hahahahahaha. gods speed be with you.

The point is, with monitors, fixing, changing, adjusting are an everyday occurance. Also learning from your own failures is an everyday occurance. There is no end to it. EVER. You see, the more successful you are, the more problems are developed.

You said you changed the dirt, how do you know this new dirt is any good? You say you increased the heat, is it too hot? Whats too hot and whats too cold????? Whats the right dirt? Tell me I need to know.

One last thing. When you read something, I do not care if its from a scientific journal, the bible or from the newspaper, that does not mean you know it. It only means you have read it and if you have some retention, you may remember it. To know something is to do that something and do it correctly, not just do it. It means to do it over and over. Husbandry is an applied science.

What I am saying is, reading and thinking about this stuff means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. What means something is when your charges(animals in your care) respond in a positive manner. No, not exsist. Benefit from. Cheers

Put it in a fixture uver your head and see if it improves your color. Ha Ha Ha Ha. Maybe it will aid in your digestion as well.

Just FYI:
The full spectrum will benefit plants, but they don't NEED it. Experiments have been done with plants in a room void of light except for a spot with a colored bulb. They use all wavelengths except for green, which they reflect.
Sorry to bring up science again.

Hakunah matatta!

AH

I have raised them with it, with out it, in the sun and with no light source at all(experiment w/ ceramic heat)- all worked. I noticed no differences in behavior except in the sun they were much less tolerant of my presence (maybe because they could see me from a greater distance- I'm no Fabio either.) There was a study that supported UV (not specifically UVB) for beneficial healing properties in a case with a skin abrasion on a V.salvadorii. As for me, I buy what provides the right heat at the right price. Ask FR this question as he will have the experience with these animals to answer this question...Best to you and your water- Mike

With a proper environment and good temperature choices theres no difference. In fact no species of reptile Ive ever had and many good friends have had (and have) do not, and will not need, and dont show any benefit from UV (profit maker) bulbs.
If you want spend the money, but theres always other things that are of use that you could spend your money on.
I bet this topic was discussed and argued just a few weeks ago, and so on in this forum alone.
Why does no one read the archieves or a few pages down?

I DID read and I DID research. That's why I asked the questions because people raised these issues in those threads, they have differing opinions which I am trying to clear up. I'm sure you are very experienced with monitors (not sarcasm), but there are those who aren't yet. I am sure you have been asked this 1000 times but and it seems annoying, *I* myself personally have not asked you, until I posted this thread.

This is merely reading. Your reading up.

To do actual research, you need to investigate why people or papers are saying what they are saying. Most people say stuff for no or very little reason. In fact on here, people merely quote other people and add their own stuff. But none of them actually did anything.

For instance if I read a scientific paper, I do not believe it. But if what its saying is questionable or different, I research how they came about what they said. In many many cases, the results of papers are completely out of context, and or completely wrong.

For instance body temps. If the author took those temps off a monitor walking around, its almost meaningless. As monitors will walk around in a huge range of temps. But if they took the temps of gravid females basking, or even better yet, the temp they stop basking, that temp would be of interest. Or what temps are they using to digest large food items? or small food items? are these different? You see, in contest, we want temps that are of actual use to a monitor performing different life tasks or events. Not the temps of a monitor walking home from the pub.

So the information must be in context for its use. Sadly most papers are not in context with their own title. Cheers

Issues that kill so many monitors all of the time.
People are paranoid to expose reptiles (monitors, beardies, etc) to lower temps, and higher temps. I found over the years that they make use and adapt to a very very broad range, some of this I discovered by accident.
I have had monitors and beardies sent to me years ago without heat packs, some were caught in transit on trucks instead of planes, some with no insulation, some with little. Some of these were lost for 1-3 weeks in freezing temps, one beardie in Northern New York state (dont ask how or why, I dont know) for 3 days in 5-20f temps on a loading dock (holiday weekend). This lizard arrived, and was warmed up in 35 minutes, the darn thing was mating with my female 45 minutes out of the box, 2 weeks later I had 23 great eggs.
I used to let Sobek and my other albigs regularly outdoors for 20 minutes to a few hours in temps from 40f-100f, they never had one problem with this.
But why do so many see beardies, and monitors so frail that they cant stop respiratory infections, the same people see impactions from food and substrates, they see lizards that never grow up or grow to see adult size, heck most dont live to see 6 months, some dont live to see 1 month.
Its the basic husbandry, give them what they can use and let them do their thing.
A good friend had a Tanzanian WT running loose for 6 months, from fall through winter in an unheated warehouse, this lizard used the sun from windows, and heat from mammal cages, and electric items to stay warm, and cleaned the warehouse up from escaped crickets, feeder rodents, and local vermin before getting caught in spring. She escaped capture by outrunning her owners in the warehouse many times, even in the cool times. This was a central PA winter that saw more than a few feet of snaow and a few bad long blizzards.
These are tough creatures.

how about this one, I shipped a friend of mine a male Flavi. Something went wrong, it got delayed in shipping.

Well it finally arrived, 6 months later. Hmmmmmmmmmm I asked, did it like really stink, the reciever said, no. I asked what it looked like, he said fine. I said what, he said its alive an fine, 6 MONTHS later. It took six months and it was fine. hahahahahahaha

He sent it back, as I had already replaced it, it was fine. Six months, I have always wondered how or where it went. Cheers

"Most people say stuff for no or very little reason. In fact on here, people merely quote other people and add their own stuff. But none of them actually did anything."

I must admit to this, I do it quite often. Sometimes, it is partially the results I had and partially someone else's. I do try to avoid straight up quoting people for no reason, but it does sometimes happen.

Cheers,
Ryan
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There are three kinds of people in this world: people who can count and people who can't.

Raised issues or did not agree is that they are on that side of keepers who are trying to prop as many crutches under their screen top aquariums, and screen cages as possible.
The answer was to show that if you did your research, and got answers from those who know better about any reptiles at all, you would not need to ask this.
I answered as to not be rude, your responce following was the rude one. I was simply telling you and others that the forum gets full of the same few questions all of the time, but you can find the topic by searching down, or typing a search under the topic in the archives, in fact enough answers and posts to read for the next 6 months under "UV lighting need, or results".
FR covered this very well.
I think the best examples were from a rescue a friend had, I used to help set some cages up, care for some lizards, crocodilians (sometimes). Many of the turtles, tortoise, lizards, etc were kept under UV lighting by their former owners who were struggling to keep them alive. In no time at all these animals recovered, and grew to amazing sizes, and were bright, vibrant animals that did not even look anything the same in a matter of weeks with simple heat, lighting, proper foods, and caging. These friends of mine are a few of many who have never even looked twice at UV bulbs in passing, they knew that over the years proper husbandry is all thats needed, not magic 3-6 month overpriced bulbs.