Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I dont have tortoises, wont for a long time, and I have a question about pyramiding. I know the causes. But how does it adversely affect the animals? Is it painful? Does It inhibit movement? Does it make the shell soft? I think it looks rather neat (NOT saying I would make a tortoise pyramid on purpose!). And has anyone ever seen a pancake tort with pyramids? Just asking, it would look even more odd on a pancake! Thanks!

I thought the same thing when I was first starting to look for a tortoise to buy. I had no idea what pyramiding was. I just thought some torts were lumpy and it looked cool to me. But, it's not good for them. The same things that cause pyramiding (too much protein being a big one) can cause kidney failure and premature death. Tortoises should be fed a diet of almost entirely weeds and sparingly.

Well, i think it can sometimes interfere with breeding. I think the main problem is that was causes pyramiding can also cause other problems.

SO, pyramiding itself isnt bad, but the things along with it? Is it ok if I bought a tortoise with pyramids (I wont breed them, I just want a pet red-foot)? The care isnt any harder is it? I'm entirely new to chelonians, forgive me if I sound stupid.

I think that most captive raised tortoises do have at least a little pyramiding. It's because people aren't as educated on proper care as they should be. There are some tortoise keepers though who do a great job and their animals have smooth, beautiful shells just like in nature. I don't think there's much you can do about pyramiding once they have it, unless the tort is very young in which case it might flatten out a little over time as it grows. However, as long as the tort doesn't also have metabolic bone disease, and is relatively young, you shouldn't have to give it any special care. BUT, do your research and feed it properly. I say "if it's relatively young" because if it's an older tortoise with pyramiding then it probably has been on a bad diet for many years, which is worse for obvious reasons.

You may want to rethink your statement that you know the causes of pyramiding. I have two redfoots. Same Food. Same humidity. Same substrate. Same Temperatures. Same supplements. Both the same size and weight. Both from the same parents. One has pyramiding (minimal) and one is perfectly smooth. So what exactly is the cause(s) of pyramiding?
Tom

Poor diet/over-feeding.

Sometimes two sisters from the same house with the same diet of potato chips turn out differently. One might be skinny and the other one fat as a whale. Individuals react differently. Some people have heart attacks and others eat bacon for every meal and live to be 100.

Can't be overfeeding. They started out at the same weight and are the same weight 2 years later. As far as same food affecting each one differently, then how do you know what to feed them. How about genetics. How about infectons? I take care of identical twins where only one has diabetes. I'm just stating that with all thats not known about pyramiding that we do not know the cause.
Tom

My question is answered. No need to be hypercritical. I was just asking this because I want to be sure ALL my questions are answered. I am 14, but I'm not stupid. I know my limits for now, and a tortoise is beyond that. I am getting all my big/expensive herps after college, once I have the time and money to care for them. Consider the fact that I am doing research 10 years ahead of time! I have been through the imported savannah, the 'CH' ball, and the impusle buys. I want all my future herp experiences fun for me and the animal, and I want the absolute best I can provide, so I ask on forums, buy books(good ones! not 'How to unwittingly kill your iguana'), and talk to experts and breeders. No need to be harsh about it, guys. Thanks for clearing this up!

DrTom,
I believe that pyramiding is a probably caused by a multitude of problems. I agree our knowledge about the causes is probably incomplete. I tend to believe hydration, access to humid hide spots, access to hot & cool spots to aid thermoregulation, UVB exposure, available calcium & proper diet are all involved. Which is most important? I currently believe the first 3 I listed are critical.
But I am wondering - even though you offer the same food, how do you know they are eating the same amount especially if they are housed together? If housed together, how do you know both have the same access to the same humidity in their hides/resting areas? Do they both have equal access to the same warm spots as well? And water?
Often a dominant tortoise will hog the resources if housed together.

Same amount of food is easy. I feed them outside the pen and watch them eat. Both eat until bored and walk away. Seperate piles, same food. Both grew the same amount per month for 2 years. Humid hide of bed a beast and cypress mulch. dampened each day and they both snuggle in each night physically bumping shells. Ceramic heater over the hide keeps it about 81 degrees. There are 2 other hides in the table, cooler and they never use them.
Now the pyramiding on one is very minimal but I still find it interesting that as best as it can be done they live the exact same lives and slightly different results.
I know humans are quite different then torts but the same is true with people. @ kids, same house, same parents, same food. One has bad asthma, one never wheezed. Or one has diabetes and brother is fine.

I only bring it up because you can do everything right and still get pyramiding. And you can do everything wrong and get none. 43 years ago I had my first tort. Was told it was a desert tort. It was a redfoot but I was 7 so what did I know. Kept on sand, dry as a bone. Fed mostly lettuce. 24 years later no pyramiding at all. 11 inches long by then and perfect shell. Never got calcium supplements. Now I am not saying thats the way to raise a redfoot. Just saying there must be another variable that we haven't discovered yet.
Tom

The mystery to pyamiding is to be found in the Star tortoise.Mainland smooth Sir Linkan bumpy.Its the same animal. Why. I have never seen a highly pyramided Mt.Tort.I believe their scutes grow from the outer edge of the scute inward.So some are raised around the outer edge giving the center a concave look,"reverce pyr".It smoothes out as they get older,most of the time.I have had some with scutes that stay very concave for up to 13yrs.(not that it went away,just sold it)It had the same parents same enviroment and diet as its sibblings that smoothed out in around six years.Vic