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I know some people keep monitors outside in the right climate. What are ther pros and cons.

What should I be concerned about bringing a monitor outside. Can they pick up mites or parasites.

If you ask that type of question, you are not ready to try it.

Outside can be great, or go right down the toilet, and in a hurry. Someone gave me some advice once, he said, They either get away or die. He was not very far off.

Of course it can be made to work, but I think you really have to have a handle on their requirements first. Cheers

I'll put you down as a "No to outdoors".

Death or escape is what I was concerned with. Sounds like you agree. I ask questions to see what other people think. Every once in a while I learn something.

I did not tell you no. This surely should not be a vote. Its up to you based on your own abilities and how willing you are to lose your animals. If your already afraid of that, then that should tell you something. Cheers

I am concerned about the added risk of loss of the animal. I am new to these animals and think I will get some experience with them before I bring them outside. They seem far more intelligent and much faster than any snake I've owned.

It seems that any outdoor enclosure would need to be as secure as the indoor one, which would mean building another structure for the few days during the summer when conditions were right.

My snakes don't eat things when they are outside but I have seen pet monitors find and eat insects so I was curious if anyone had any comments on the introduction of parasites into their diet.

Thanks

You have made a good choice. Consider, if a snake or monitor gets out in your house, its not really gone. And you know how you feel when that happens. If they get out when outside, they are gone.

I do not fear parasites, I have kept monitors outside for 16 years now(the first four or five years were indeed a pain in the hindend) And never had a problem with parasites. Heck, I never had a problem with parasites with any reptiles, wild caught or not. And I never treat them. Cheers

I can understand why Frank responded the way he did, because your questions are very ignorant.

Mainly this one;

What should I be concerned about bringing a monitor outside. Can they pick up mites or parasites.

First off FR is right, Escape and Death would be my first concern, escape before death but still both are equal in my book. But mites or parasites, please these would be last on my book as a healthy lizard will not succumb to either. Not to mention that having a lizard indoors not not protect them from either.

I know some people keep monitors outside in the right climate. What are ther pros and cons.

To vague; different monitors require different enviroments different parts of the country have different enviroments will they match, can they be made to work, who knows you didn't give enough info in the first place.

If you want specifics give them.

Jeremy

The whole pretext of a question is to approach a subject from a position of ignorance. When someone asks a question they are admitting that they might not know all there is to know about the subject they propose. If I were not somewhat ignorant I would not ask questions but would take a position of authority and make factual statements to others who ask questions. I could also be a haughty smartass to the ignorant question askers.

I also said "in the right climate". Since the complete thought of the sentence was beyond your grasp I'll spell it out. This would mean an African like climate for an African monitor or a tropical like climate for a tropical monitor. So now the question is understood as; if you had the right climate for your monitor, what are the pros and cons of bringing a captive monitor outside.

I asked if anyone had concerns about mites or parasites. I'll put bigboy down as "not concerned"

Thanks for the input.

Even in South Florida, a prasinus monitor may not be humid enough. Most of the continental US is not hot enough. If you really know your lizard's requirements, you could theoretically do it w/ modifications to the ambient environment whether it be substrate, humidity, temperatures and some other factors. What species and where are you?

It is a BlackThroat and I'm in Connecticut so only the hottest summer days would be acceptable and only during the days. A permanent enclosure would not satisfy the animals needs without a controlled environment.

>>It is a BlackThroat and I'm in Connecticut so only the hottest summer days would be acceptable and only during the days. A permanent enclosure would not satisfy the animals needs without a controlled environment.

My entirely low experience vote is NO.
I kept a large iguana in an outside enclosure during hot HOT upstate NY summer days and an occasional night. He had additional heat sources no matter what. (see my thread on him getting burned once)
One time I went out to find him covered in red mites. I paid a vet to ivermectin him so as not to bring them back inside....whether they would do him harm or not.
What stopped me from taking the ig out in the last few years was worries about West Nile virus and who knows what else that my vet couldn't tell me whether an Ig could or would get or bring in.
Boy I want to move south.
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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

I'm with you. What the hell are we doing raising reptiles in New England. Not to mention our whole 7 species of native ones. Such diversity.

You have to ask the right questions to get the right responces. Context is everything. As in your statement, african climate. In reality, africa has many different types of climates, from artic(Mount Kil) to desert(Sahara) to tropical jungle(congo) to seasonal(the cape) So a statement like African climate is useless. As is the statement african monitor. There are several and they occur in many of the above climates. In context, its important to know that YOUR monitor only comes from one of those climates and what are that climates parameters.

Also, only very naive keepers think someone(anyone or I) can give you an answer, that is impossible. Anyone or I, can only offer suggestions. The reason is context. I and anyone are not you, and I/we do not have your understanding, or your conditions, or your resources, or simply we may not have the same tools or understanding of tools. So what I do, cannot ever be what you do or will do. Always apples to oranges.

The context of you asking "a" question is in hope that the responce will work for "you", not for me or anyone else.

I find this is the base of all this non sense. CONTEXT, my man.

In context, people respond to help you(some do) others respond to help the monitors(thats what I do) Some are merely mucking with you, some who knows why they say what they say. Its your choice.

Oddly, many of those that ask are all full of themselves, as its very common for them to say, well FR, I partly agree with you(state a meaningless degree) In context, no one and surely not I, could care what or who you agree with. The point is not about agreeing, that is so grade school. In context, a newbie should not agree with someone thats successfully experienced(I have to add successfully, because with monitors, many think they are experienced because they kept them for a very long time, unsuccessfully)

So, a newbie(one wanting the answers others may have) agreeing or disagreeing is very very naive and not very productive. Your task is not to agree, your beliefs are what got you into this mess in the first place. If you understood the subject, you would not be asking the dang question. To state you agree or disagree is a sure sign of emminent failure. Your task is to gain useful information, THAN APPLY IT, then and only then will you recieve an answer.

Your task is to plan an approach where your monitors benefit from advice you recieved.

Getting advice from the internet is like spitting in the wind, you never know where its going to land, it could land in your own face. Which leads back to the top, you have to be very careful, what you ask, how you ask it and whos giving the responce(the monitors supply the answers) and lastly, whos advice you will attempt to use. Cheers

This is the run around I was referring to. Instead of helping out with suggestions or warnings, you write an entire page about how his question isn't quite right.

when nerkhunts was suggesting the right climate, I understood it to mean the right weather where the monitor in question lives which is a BT. I'm sure he wasn't talking about the sahara or rain forests where these monitors don't live.

I completely understand that you get sick and tired of answering the same questions over and over. After all you've been doing this for a many years. But I don't understand why you choose to answer questions in a way that doesn't help the one asking. If you're so tired of it, why respond at all?

Dumb old me, I think to get an appropriate answer, you need an appropriate question.

I have a feeling you think, we think alike, you must or you would not tell me what information I need. I hate to tell you, we don't. My results vs. your questions, tell me we are on different planes. I am sure we need different information to answer the same questions. Of course I use different information then you, I also give different advice and reports of varanid success, then you. This has nothing to do with whos a better person, just information in the context of this forum.

What gives you the idea, that we would need the same information?

You and I, both understand you have very little results or actual experience to base your responces on. Of course you can take other peoples word for stuff and repeat it and hope its right. Or read something and hope its right. That gives you a distint advantage. Your going by heresay. Sadly, I am only going by my own actual results so I need pertained(to have a bearing on) information to give an accurate response. This is why I do not like to give information to newbies, they do not know what is important and what is not important. For instance, this person thinks a monitor rubbing its face off is husbandry. Well it is, just really bad husbandry.

So I leave him and other newbies in your experienced hands. Because surely you have a better understanding of what hes asking. I wish you all the luck. I really do. Cheers

"For instance, this person thinks a monitor rubbing its face off is husbandry. Well it is,"

Huh?

Translation: A monitor rubbing it's face off is trying to escape so constantly that it would rather rub it's very sensative face to a pulp then sit there and die in it's tiny enclosure. The cage is very bad per the lizard.

I got that much. My original question was whether or not anyone had monitors in troughs whose noses are fine, not rubbed raw. I've since learned that if monitors have a proper enclosure this shouldn't be a problem. Thats what I was lookin fer.

You were told that on the first post, Its not the cage, its bad husbandry.

YOU have to learn to stop blaming cages and other such things. You have to learn to blame YOU. That way, you can learn.

If you do not understand the needs of monitors, you can try cage after cage, you can go thru 500 monitor noses using differrent cages.

IF an animal does not want to be in a cage, they will attempt to leave, even if it kills them. Your task is to give the monitor reason to stay, it does not matter what the cage is made out of. Do you really think nature is smooth?

Of course can't give them everything they want, so they will have some reasons to want out. But we can limit that to, its not worth ripping your face off.

If I see a monitor trying to leave a cage, I look at the cage and say to myself, why is it doing that, the common reasons are, no security(hiding places of ITS choice) no food, no water, no nesting, no suitable temps, No ability to choose the basics it needs.

In reality, monitors are easy, in reality, if you give them something the call home, you can leave the door open and when you enter the room, it will run back into its cage(if it can)

Hey, I got some great zoo stories with big big animals about this. Cheers

It surely was bad husbandry and sad to see. I think you said it best when you said your monitors try to go back in their cages. That is a successful cage.

I think it's a good idea for you to ask about the pro's and con's about keeping monitors outdoors. However I fear you will get the run around on this forum. I don't very often hear solutions to problems here.

Here's my experience with keeping monitors outdoors for the first time. 2 monitors I really cared about died with in the first few months. I was crushed.

I live in San Diego, and I think this is a great place for outdoor cages. The problem is winter. Although our winters are considered mild compared to most of the US, it still gets cold enough to kill monitors who's natural habitat is near the equator.

I provided heated boxes for them to retreat to when it gets cold, but for some reason they(2 different species) decided to go outside in weather that was in the low 40's, to do what ever it was they wanted to do and got so cold they couldn't make it back to their safety box. One of them was found in her large water tub. The other right in the middle of the cage. Both froze to death.

What I didn't know or realize is that these lizards, however smart they are, don't really understand the consequences of the harsh weather of the winters in north America. They don't get 30-40 degree(or colder)weather where they come from.

these days, I only keep my monitors outdoors for about 5-6 months. I bring them in for the cold months.

there's many more factors to consider before you house them outdoors, but this is one that bit me in the @$$ so I thought I'd share.
cheers
shay

Thanks for the info Shay. Thats the kind of post I was hoping for. Sorry about your monitors. Thats something good to know. I guess it makes sense that they wouldn't know what to do with those temps. I'm in Connecticut so even if decided to built an outdoor enclosure I would have to bring them in each night. We have temps that would be unhealthy for a Blackthroat even in the summer.

About your first paragraph. You can only blame yourself for getting the run around. All of us are "only" human. Being human, that makes us different and non consistant and changing. Many here are sick and tired of trying to help those who do not want help.

For instance, I reserve the right to not respond in a consistant manner(inconsistant). If a person makes it hard for me to help their monitors, then of course that is no fun and I have no recourse but to make it hard for them. If a person makes it easy to help them(their monitors), then of course its a JOY to help those people. Who do you think is going to get the best help?????

In your case, on another forum, we had a little exchange, and you end with, show me the right nesting. Sir, come on, that exact subject has been gone over a million times. And I have posted literally hundreds of that type of monitor nesting. Since the time you have been on these forums, many many many times.

I find it hard to understand that YOU want to be treated as an equal and of sufficient intelligence. Yet, you want your cookies handed to you on a silver platter. Like a person of no intelligence. Sir, the information is commonplace on this and that other forum, why do you have to have it handed to you on a silver platter? Which means, you really have to do your own work. LOOK IT UP. I cannot say this on that forum or I would have to delete myself. Or worse, have Jefe delete me(hes very experienced at that)

ALso there is a point when there is a distint difference between causal help, and blood sucking. Always keep this in mind, the subject of the questions are YOUR MONITORS, not mine, or anyone elses, I do not recieve compensation for helping you. So sir, if you make it easy to help you, then folks would volunteer more, if you make it hard, your lucky to get anything.

I could careless whom you believe or if you make up your own stuff. After all, its yours to do. But don't go around blaming a forum or a person, for you making it hard to help you. An example is, you go to various forums and read, then you want me(or anyone) to argue against a conglamerate of folks I/we do not know. How funny is that? ITs your task to pick something and go with it. It surely is not mine or anyone on those other forums task. Which again as usual, leads to the top, they are YOUR dang montiors and your dang responsibility. So its your dang problem. You need to be civil and understand, you want easy information, then YOU have to make it easy to give to you. Lastly, arguing with someone trying to help you, is plain and simple not smart. Of course no one has to agree with any one, but to argue with those attempting to help you. ITs called kicking a gifthorse. Cheers

wow, I didn't mean to strike a nerve like that. That first paragragh was just venting some frustration. I get a little annoyed when everytime I ask questions or make attempts at conversation, you always respond with how much I don't understand, or what I'm doing won't work, and there's never any friendly suggestions to go along. I appreciate criticism, so long as there's helpful suggestions.
cheers

Yea, I friggin know, and thats exactly the point. You get all defensive and for what? Monitors are a fun "hobby" not the friggin end of the world. Your the perfect example of not making it fun.

Now consider, If you do not know something(just like these other youngins) You have to stop being so dang defensive. You are the one who asked for criticism, did you not????? You asked for dang sake, I did not ask you.

You have to understand you do not have to use anything said to you. You can do whatever the heck you want, heck, take a gun out and shoot them, its not my business. Oh I would not like that, but they are YOUR friggin monitors.

All in all, if your too insecure to hear the answer, then don't ask the question. You simply do not have to go to that site. Or ask me anything on this site. You do not have to click on what I write, you have to do that on your own.

I will not seek you out. I do not seek out any of you. I simply go on doing what I do and enjoying reptiles.

Lastly, to try to understand something you do not understand, is not easy, but you are the one who has to make the effort, not me. Get it? giver(me) taker(you) Cheers

you missed the point. I'm happy to get criticism. If it comes from someone with tons of experience and success, I can learn from it. It's just frustrating when that's all there is. I would love to see a sentence start out (after all the criticism) "This is what I would do" or "This is what worked for me" but all your posts end at with either what you don't like about what I'm doing or telling me about your success with out mentioning how you did it.
cheers

Are you blind, I show what i do on a daily basis. And I have no idea what i would do, AT YOUR HOUSE, WITH YOUR ANIMALS, under your CONDITIONS. Heck, I did not even know what part of the country your at(I don't want to know)

I do not make rules that fit all conditions. That is why I am successful. I do what the animals need, at the TIME, they need it. Again why I have continued success. To me, thats the fun part, it keeps things new. If I could follow a recipe and they would work forever, I would get something else. Monitors ARE Great, because they are NOT colubrids, and the keeper must stay on their toes.

Thats why I try to get you to THINK and UNDERSTAND, so you can decide the proper course to take. Then change it when needed. Thats called using reason.

And I did say what you were doing was overkill, and I would not do all that. And YOU my friend went all nuts and disagreed. I even gave you reason. You do understand, if you cannot breed argus, your in a world of hurt. They are by far the easist varanid in the world. The reason is simple, they do not take no for an answer. They are tuff, strong and versitile. How can you fail?? to fail, your really have no understanding of monitors.

So why should I bother, you don't want to understand, you want someone to do it for you. "Forget about it" do it yourself. Cheers

I made a post about this down below, but anyways. How do/would you guys (particularly you, Frank, as you have done it quite successfully) house dwarf monitors outside? I don't need any nitty, gritty details, but just something to give me an idea. Like, cage material, cage height, how you go about providing good substrate, a top for it, etc.

I don't plan on housing mine outside at the moment, I want to get some more complete life events in controlled indoor conditions. But I would like to envision it for developing ideas for when I decide to do so. That is, if I ever do.

Thanks.

Cheers,
Ryan
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There are three kinds of people in this world: people who can count and people who can't.