Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I saw the pictures on Pro Exotics and they were very good. I have a question though. I was on a different website with lots of monitors for sale. They were all in troughs and all had their noses rubbed bare.

Is this a problem with troughs? Is anyone using troughs and their monitor's noses are fine?

Monitors rub their noses in an attempt to escape improper conditions.

The trough has nothing to do with that. Too hot, too cold, too dry, too wet, too hungry and so on and so forth.

That makes sense because these were big monitors in small troughs without much substrate.

My bet is, you were looking at recently imported monitors, being held temporarily in troughs until sold or they die.

You are in error in thinking that has anything to do with cages or husbandry or monitors for that matter. Cheers

Since they were being stored in them I'll call them "cages". Storing them in these conditions is "husbandry" and they were "monitors".

Good luck with that, Cheers

Nose rubbing has nothing to do with troughs. Or the material in any cage. It has everything to do with the monitors not having their basic requirement meant. If they are not meant, they seek them, by constantly trying to get out.

If monitors are allow to make their own homes inside cages, they never try to get out. In fact, if you take them out, they try to run back in.

I have a room full of troughs and on occasion one gets out. What I like is, they will go right back in. And there are lots of troughs, they could go in anyone of them, but they pick theirs. Cheers

Frank got that one right. those are just holding pens for disposable animals. ugly situation, but MUCH more common than good setups : )

not sure which pics you saw, but i recently added this new FAQ, and gathered a number of trough pics together in one spot : )
new PE FAQ on troughs, usage, and construction

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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

I saw your pics and thye were very helpful. I knew the monitors I saw on the other website were for sale and probably in temporary tanks. My question was not about them but about monitors kept in troughs in ones private collection.

I think it was answered.
Thanks

I disagree Robyn. All founding stock comes from animals such as these (imports, typically their babies...). The rubbed noses have nothing to do with whether or not their owners consider them disposable or not. But I do applaud those dealers who provide enough for their animals to prevent these conditions. There are many (not all) here in FL who do currently and one in Colorado who does a great job also...

It's not that it's a WC adult that is the problem. Yes, they hopefully become the animals that provide CBB's and lessen the toll on wild populations (in theory mainly )It's that MANY importers and distributors throw 5 foot monitors in 6 foot troughs w/ a water bowl and some cypress mulch and keep it there for 6 months until it sells or dies. THAT is the issue FR and Robyn are annoyed with and i couldn't agree more. It's inhumane housing. I've seen it first hand here in FL way too many times and I'm not naming names.

there might be a couple that do an "ok" job on bringing in wild caught stuff, but by THEIR standards, certainly not current standards of monitor husbandry.

but have you SEEN import facilities? there are hundreds and hundreds of crappy animals imported regularly that arrive in terrible shape, are kept in terrible shape, and then are shipped to their death to some pet store. just because they make it out of the import facility alive doesn't mean they live on.

this type of business is all about "disposable" animals. the focus is turnover, not reptile husbandry.

you can disagree all you like, but some importers dump everything into a tank, sell what is alive, then a week later dump the dead bodies when new shipments arrive. that is reality, and not cool at all.

heck, i have seen "big breeders" (snakes) use this type of approach when turning over import and wild caught in their "elite" facilities. sad, but super true.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

It's not that I like to disagree with any of you guys. I just see things differently. When animals were imported back in the day, they were kept in such poor conditions overseas(before they ever reached US soil)that you were lucky to get your shipment alive let alone keep the animals alive long enough to set up or sell. But, with discussion and publication we all found methods that worked to keep many different animals alive. These methods became habit because they seemed to be successful at acclimating wild animals to a cage(holding cage, whatever). My point is that many still have retained their same habits today and alot of these guys and gals like animals and think that they are doing okay by them while they have them- heck some really feed them... So, I make it a point to help out or give tips that may help to improve the animal housing rather than keep my mouth shut, buy from them and then shun their facilities. And don't misunderstand me, I have seen plenty of poor husbandry and worst(as I stated not all). I simply try to understand and explain how it can be done differently. Some listen, some get pissed and get over it. I used to export to the US so I know that it can be done differently. I have seen F2 & 3 babies from animals that I had exported at the real cb Expo in Daytona. As for good husbandry, the kind that make little cb animals, that was a heavily guarded secret- or at least it seemed to be. Who would have thought to keep animals on the stuff that they live on or give them the temps that they use in the wild for basking? Anyways, it's not important that anybody see things my way but rather that more people learn to keep animals the right way and better. Best to you all- Mike