Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Tom,
whats wrong with this picture in your mind?LOL.....Yes,there are two normals in there huh.Guess what,both parents are albino applegates.

In (93) I bought a male applegate from Bob Applegate at a show.In (95) I bought a ready to breed female applegate from Kevin Winters.Kevin had bought her from Bob a couple years earlier.
Later that year I bred them for the first time and got nine eggs.All hatched out amels (as expected)and all was good.
The next year (96) I recieved 10 eggs from her and all hatched out amels.Great right.
In (97) I hatched out 9 more amels.
In (98) I put them on loan with a friend here in Town.He got 11 eggs and when they hatched he said to me that there was one normal in the clutch.I told him to put down the pipe LOL....I told him there was no way in Hell that he could have produced a normal from my pair.I had bred them three times and had produced 28 albinos and no normals.He had some other morphs and normals in his collection so I chalked it up to him mixing up a egg or something.
Anyway,the next year he produced 11 more albinos and no normals.I told him"see dip$hit"there was no way you produced any normals from my pair.
In (00) I had them back and got 12 eggs from her.Guees what?2 normals in the clutch.I couldn't believe it.
in(01) I produced 11 eggs and got one more normal.
in (02) I got 14 eggs and got 3 normals
(03) 12 eggs and all hatched amels.
(04) 13 eggs and all hatched out amels.
(05) 14 eggs and SIX were normals.I gave a pair of normals to applegate cause he wanted to raise them up and see what happens.
(06) female laid 6 eggs and died egg bound.2 were normal.

So,I hatched 107 amels and 15 normals.What does this mean?
Applegate told me that one other person (somebody in Germany) had bought a pair from him in (93 or 94) and reported the same thing.

Anyway,would we assume that the normals were hets or were they actually double hets and both parents were either one strain het for the other or one parent was one het for the other and the other parent was a dbl-albino?
I still have the male and I also bred him to a few other females and always got amels.

Fun Stuff,
Shannon

I would not have known how to label those normals. It would have been cool to keep a pair and see what came from them. I have not heard of this happening with any other snake though, have you?
Tom Stevens
-----
TomsSnakes.com

I have had this happen in different cases. I did a breeder loan with a good friend. I sent him my female Albino Applegates to breed with his Albino Applegates. We got 50% albinos and the other half was normals. That was back in 99

Secound time. I breed my Blizzard Sonoran to a WC Albino Sonoran and got 50% albinos. I did that breeding 3 years in a row and got the same results. 2000 to 2002

I seen crazy stuff happen over the years. I dont know how it explain some of it.

Jason

Perhaps there is the slight possibility for parthenogenesis having occurred with the eggs that produced the normals and would theoretically make them het albino since only some not all of the mother's dna is used to create the offspring. off the wall theory.
-----
_____

PHWyvern

>>Perhaps there is the slight possibility for parthenogenesis having occurred with the eggs that produced the normals and would theoretically make them het albino since only some not all of the mother's dna is used to create the offspring. off the wall theory.
>>-----
>>_____
>>
>>PHWyvern

That iosn't how pathenogenesis works - sorry. Of course, Shannon didn't mention anything about the sex ratios of the babies and the females ARE the heterozygous sex.

KJ
-----
KJUN Snakehaven

KJ,
I don't remember (and didn't log it)but there was both sexes on the normals.I do remember that I was always hi female on the amels.
I did give a sexed pair of the normals to Applegate as he was interested in seeing what happened when bred together etc...

Shannon

I think it is totally possible for those normal eggs to be clones of the mother due to parthenogenesis. Albino is a recessive gene so of course they would come out normal het for albino. I think parthenogenesis is a lot more common than we think. I guess you could put a tiny little condom on your male and find out!lol

>>I think it is totally possible for those normal eggs to be clones of the mother due to parthenogenesis. Albino is a recessive gene so of course they would come out normal het for albino. I think parthenogenesis is a lot more common than we think. I guess you could put a tiny little condom on your male and find out!lol

What? Yes they are clones, but the mom doesn't have the normal allele since she is albino. Sooo, where do you think the normal allele would come from? LOL. It's something else......and not THAT surprising in some mutations when you think about it. It was MOST likely that they WERE het for albino.

KJ
-----
KJUN Snakehaven

I guess you are right. I read an article about albino frogs that were stimulated to produce viable eggs with sterile irradiated sperm from a wild type male. The babies were mostly albino and the wild types were assumed to be a product of sperm that didn't get killed. If that is true then morphs found in the wild may have been produced by parthenogenesis. The study was done to bring out recessive genes without having to inbreed.

There is a guy in here in St. Louis that had that happen this past year. He bred 2 alb. gophers and got a few norms. A local reptile shop has said that they are dbl het alb. He kept a pair back and hopes to breed them later on. His name is Phil Ferkel. PSpituophis.com is his website.
Cody

albinos were of the same strain.If he got them from a pet store its hard saying what they are and yes,they would be normals that are carrying both albino genes.

Shannon

Will the normals you gave Applegate be bred this year? You said that was in 05' I hope he posts his results on the forum.
-----
-J.Hill

Not sure if he has them up to size this year but I am sure they will be ready by next year.I will post results for sure.

L8r