Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was at another site that shows video clips from anyone who wants to show video clips. I was AMAZED at how many clips showed snake keepers feeding live rabbits and large rats to their pets. Whew, it was incredibly brutal with the rabbit kills! Their struggling screams cut right through me! And there were several clips of a burm eating chicks alive! OMG- the baby chicks kept peeping as they were swallowed ALIVE! The largest feeding was a goat! What are your comments on this issue? I wrote message after message advocating frozen thawed in the comment areas provided below the video screen format at the site. I received some negative responses. MADE ME MORE GRATEFUL MY Royal Albino Python feeds on F/T! I have a lot of the pros here to thank for F/T guidance. "Thanks Gang!"

You're looking at the sad difference between a herp owner and a responsible herp owner... just because you can doesn't mean you should!

I hope at least one person listened to your comments.

~jenny
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1.4 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, Periscope, and dah bebbies)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 mice (Cute Girl Mousy)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
0.0.1 chupacabra (it ate our chickens)

jenny.thegreenes.org

There is nothing wrong with feeding live prey to your balls this is what they eat in there natural enviorment some breeders even recommend it the feelings that you are feeling are human this is the simple way of nature , I feed live and my animals seem to be better off for it , live prey to me is the healthiest prey and I always listen to what my animals want as to what I feel is right or more convient for me as a human.

You need to reread what I said - there's nothing wrong with live prey (I feed live sometimes), I'm saying why would you want to video tape it? The original poster was describing screaming bunnies and peeping chicks, that kind of video is detrimental to the perception of our hobby.

~jenny
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1.4 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, Periscope, and dah bebbies)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 mice (Cute Girl Mousy)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
0.0.5 tropical fish (tetras and a neon blue gourami)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
0.0.1 chupacabra (it ate our chickens)

jenny.thegreenes.org

This is all part of nature , get over it or change your hobby , your snakes deserve the right to eat live thats what they do in nature, I love this hobby.

It's not the live part that's a problem! It's the video taping part!
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1.4 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, Periscope, and dah bebbies)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 mice (Cute Girl Mousy)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
0.0.5 tropical fish (tetras and a neon blue gourami)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
0.0.1 chupacabra (it ate our chickens)

jenny.thegreenes.org

snakes do indeed eat live prey in the wild, but for people to take delight in seeing an animal squealing while being put to death is sadistic, that is serial killer kind of appeal (serial killers have been known to torture animals to death as children).

there is nothing wrong with nature, but it is not "natural" to take delight in another animal's suffering.

kids with still undeveloped minds think it is "cool" to smash a frog's head in with a rock. an adult should find a different kind of reaction to such a thing.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

I think that this post has gotten alittle to serious , the snakes are just doing what they naturally do and that is consuming their prey, infact they do it in very humane way from what I have observed when my balls neutralize their live prey they do it cleanly and swiftly much better than putting a prey item in a co2 chamber or bashing its head against something to stun it which is much more violent and something I would never do.

yes, snakes kill live stuff, but what the original poster was aghast at was folks videotaping it, and then putting it on line for some twisted voyeuristic thrill.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Robyn,

I agree with you 100%.
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Kyle
www.royalvariations.com

"be safe, be happy and dont let anyone make you afraid" David Coverdale

Just remember they dont get frozen thawed in the wild.This is how they have survived before we put them in captive conditions.Terry

Agreed, but there is a pretty big difference between captivity and the wild. Snakes get no say in anything in captivity.

And chances are, the people video taping that and putting it on the web aren't even thinking of the potential repercussions. "Look at this big mean snake eating the screaming little bunny/chick!" It just feeds the fear of snakes.
There's nothing wrong with live prey, but why on earth would you want to video tape an animal screaming as it dies? If I had anything big enough to eat rabbits I'd sure as hell try to convert to F/T just to avoid having to hear the screams.

~jenny
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1.4 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, Periscope, and dah bebbies)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 mice (Cute Girl Mousy)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
0.0.1 chupacabra (it ate our chickens)

jenny.thegreenes.org

"There's nothing wrong with live prey, but why on earth would you want to video tape an animal screaming as it dies?"

I totaly agree and I feed live or PK to mine. but would never tape it.
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5.9.0 ball python
2.1.0 columbian boa
1.0.0 rat snake (alabastered)
1.1.1 corn snake
0.1.0 Chuckwalla (Jamie)
1.1.0 Bearded Dragon
0.0.1 crested gecko
1.0.0 leopord gecko
4.0.0 Quaker parrot
1.0.0 Landseer Newfoundland (Mac)
Brian n Chrissy

"snakes are kind of like potato chips, you cant have just one"

I normally would have a problem with a animal screaming or making noise when it is dying, But the other night my one female that has not eaten since nov and will only eat live, ( I have tried everything with her) finally took 2 mice and both times the mouse made alot of noise I must admit that I was very happy to see her eat and it did not bother me to hear the mouse cry. She is about 1200 grams and is a on and off feeder. But not happy enough to record it.

I agree. The wrong people get ahold of this footage and they will use it against us at the first opportunity. With all the ban proposals, we really need to walk on eggshells from now on. I don't let anyone know I have snakes unless I know they're ok with it.

Brandon Osborne

It so sad what is happing. I was at a doctors appointment and knew i was going to be waiting awhile so I took my new reptiles magazine with me. I was reading and a woman sitting next to me ask me what I was reading, I showed her and she asked why i would read such a thing, I told her that snakes are a hobby of mine and she said well you do not look like the kind of girl that would be into that kind of hobby. I asked her what should a girl look like that is into that kind of hobby.. She actually got up and moved across the room like i suddenly smelled.. I find it funny, but There are wasy to many people that feel that way. It is scary to see that these people can change the whole industry.

Jenny JUST CONCEDER THE SORCE AND IGNORE THE IGNERACE and keep your cool . Your Bud David

its horrible! live chicks and rabbitts. poor things i seen that myself and its really bad to watch. i see that you feed f/t to your albino ball. how long did that take you? how did you do it? thanks.

I think that people are viewing the viedo the wrong way although I have not seen it , people who keep fish that are predatory feed other fish and animals to them such as people who keep oscars, piranah and etc , I dont have a problem with these viedos I think they are just another part of the hobby that people can enjoy , just like those people who keep monitor lizards , have you ever seen them eat live prey ? people get over it , if you have a problem with what your animals where put on this earth to do eat rodents and such find another hobby , this is what snakes do THEY EAT LIVE RODENTS , know big deal rodents carry disese and are very dirty animlas that cannot be controled in urban areas so let them scream I always say good snake everytime my balls feed I love this hobby.

I agree - in a perfect world everyone would feed f/t but sometimes that just isn't possible/feasible - and there is really nothing wrong with feeding appropriate live prey.

There is, however, something wrong with using it for entertainment purposes - being stupid with your feedings and posting these stupid videos on the internet. More and more of these things keep turning up - and people wonder why there is a push to ban snake ownership.
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Tosha

Well said well said tosha . David

I agree with other posters about taping the feeding process. But for those that have never dealt with large snakes, don't critisize for feeding live rabbits or other prey items. I for one would prefer to feed prekilled to large constrictors as to avoid any potential injury to the snake but once the prey items and snakes get to a certain size, will it just made me uncomfortable to pre-kill the animals. For one, I used to own several very large retics (almost 20ft) that were fed on small goats (up to 25lbs). The humane way of pre-killing such an animal would be to seperate it's cervical collumn but the actual truth is the most humane way is to allow a finely tuned predator to do what nature intended. The prey almost instantly died when grabbed without the trauma of me trying to pre-kill it. I guarentee that live feedings are less stressful to the large prey animals than pre-killing.

hey what's worse for the hobby, a person filming a naturalistic experience or others saying that those people shouldn't be allowed to own snakes? I wonder which is used to fuel legislation. I can hear it now "Even the people that keep these animals don't think others should, we need to protect these animals from everyone and protect everyone from these animals."
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

I agree, it is pretty frickin hard to kill some of the larger prey. Hah, I have issues with really big rats (sad but true), so on the rare occasion I get a rather large rat for feeding, I let my girl take it out, because I simply can't do it humanely.
But, that is also why I don't any larger snakes.

F/T is convenient, and if you have a snake (like I do) who is awful at nailing her prey so that they don't bite back... good for keeping your snake from getting scarred up.

The video taping is for us what dog fights involving pit bulls would be for you. Pitbulls can fight, and are sometimes used for fighting, but I personally love the breed - and not because they fight! They're great dogs, etc, etc. But, they're banned in a lot of rental agreements because of irresponsible owners. The average person is not that bright and assumes that because some pit bulls are dangerous, they all must be. Same thing happens with video taping your snakes feeding - the average person sees it and goes "ZOMG BIG EVIL SNAKE EATING CUTE LIL BUNNY". Yes, it's natural, but no one thinks about that.

~jenny
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1.4 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, Periscope, and dah bebbies)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 mice (Cute Girl Mousy)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
0.0.5 tropical fish (tetras and a neon blue gourami)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
0.0.1 chupacabra (it ate our chickens)

jenny.thegreenes.org

If you have a snake that has been eating f/t or p/k or live pray since they were a hatchling there is know added stress if that is what they are use to . I had a 19 ft. Burm that wouldn’t feed on anything but F/T and be leave me it’s a pain in the a- - to freeze hole pigs and goats .!! But I have had a lot of them that would not feed on anything but live or P/K so it’s just a mater of what they are use to . This hole post has strade from the original purpose. You shouldn’t tape it and post it for entertainment , What if a child found it on the web , is that what a child that hasn’t been raised around reptiles needs to see . I’m shore the psychiatric profession would see the $$$$ signs all the way to the bank .Thanks David

uhh..snakes dont swollow prey live, and its not sad...its the curcle of life...theres more mice than snakes for a reason, they were created that way.