Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've got a fella that would regurge meals too large and regurge about every 4 meal. I was not worried because he has a super good appetite and putting on weight. However in the last few months, he regurges every meal 2-3 days after eating. He is getting very skinny and I'm not sure what else to try. I'm thinking he may have parasites (no mites). What would a conservative dosing for internal worms be? I have 10% ivermectin cattle injectable and can get panacur horse paste.
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2.1 Albino BP
0.4 100% Het Albino
2.1 100% het Caramel Albino BP
1.0 100% Het Clown
1.0 50% het clown
2.12 Normal BP
0.0.2 Western Hognose
alot of cornsnakes
0.1.0 Dumeril Boa
3.6 Bearded Dragons
1.0.2 Sulcatta tortoise
3.3 Russian Tortoise
1.0 Cockatiel
0.1 Rottweiler
0.2 Boston Terriers
0.1 White Boxer
0.1 Paint Mare
bunch of geckos
0.1 Cat
0.1 Teenage daughter
1.0 Husband who puts up with all my critters.

First thing, Stop feeding! 2nd thing, i think on cathy's website is a guide to dealing with regurging, the problem is they lose important digestive juices everytime they regurge.
cornutopia should be at the top of the forum so try to find the regurge faq.
If you can't find it i can find one for you so PM me if need be
Demon
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The Dark side: Live In Fear Cause' We'll Always Be Here

What worked best for me was Flagyl but make sure you have parasites before using it.
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.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
.1 MO Locale Black Ratsnake "Molly" (Flogging Molly)

"Have you ever tried simply turning off the T.V., sitting down with your kids... and hitting them?"

Ivermectin is NOT recommended in reptiles as it takes near lethal doses to be effective, sometimes taking three doses to be as effective as the MUCH less toxic Panacur(Fenbendazole). In any case the proper dosage with the "horse cream" paste, is 0.25 cc/kg. With some snakes that tend to regurgitate I have had VERY good results using Flagyl(Metronidazole) at a dosage of 25-50 mg/kg(second dose in 14 days). I use the higher side of the dosage, as snakes seem to be very tollerant of the drug, and for that matter, the same goes for Panacur........Not long ago, I had a Honduran Milksnake that regurgitated every single meal it ate(even very small ones). After treatment of Flagyl, he held down every meal from that day on!.....don't forget, when you introduce a meal AFTER treatment, make SURE it is a VERY small meal!, and slowly work up to larger ones........good luck!
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Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!

that his environment is kept with an "underneath" heat source at ONE END of the cage at about 81-85 degrees!(readable thermometer down on substrate) with a small hide box for security!......this could be the ONLY problem!, and you stated it all started a few months ago..........(the coldest months!) .....keeping him at these temps will help his "auto-immune" system in getting back to normal...also the proper temp. is EXTREMELY important at aiding in digestion, rather than the meal sitting and rotting in the stomach, which is likely why it regurgitated in the first place.....In any case, if these things I stated to do are followed, it should allow the snake to make a full recovery , if it is allowed to continue regurgitating, he will surely die in a fairly short time!........I hope the snake does well, good luck! ................................Doug
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Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!

thanks for the help. Yes, he is in rack system with flex watt under the back end at proper temps. I have lots of snakes and he is the only one having issues. He is nearly 2 years old and not much bigger than a yearling. Fed him a rat fuzzy last week and 3 days later, out it came. He had been eating small rat pups and regurging every 3-4 meal. No reptile Doc for miles. I'll check out cornutopia for more info.
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2.1 Albino BP
0.4 100% Het Albino
2.1 100% het Caramel Albino BP
1.0 100% Het Clown
1.0 50% het clown
2.12 Normal BP
0.0.2 Western Hognose
alot of cornsnakes
0.1.0 Dumeril Boa
3.6 Bearded Dragons
1.0.2 Sulcatta tortoise
3.3 Russian Tortoise
1.0 Cockatiel
0.1 Rottweiler
0.2 Boston Terriers
0.1 White Boxer
0.1 Paint Mare
bunch of geckos
0.1 Cat
0.1 Teenage daughter
1.0 Husband who puts up with all my critters.

n/p
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Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!

Regurging is most often caused by improper husbandry, NOT parasites. I would check to see if the snake has the proper temperature gradient, proper cage size (snakes favor small enclosures), is not being over-handled (or handled at all if it's having health problems) and has a hidebox where it can feel secure.

As a general rule-of-thumb, I don't feed a snake that has regurged for 10-14 days and then offer it a smaller-than-usual food item.

Stress is the most common cause of regurgitation, and you need to determine what's stressing out your snake.

Tim

Third Eye

Thanks for the info. He has rack system, flex watt under back of shoebox tub. Newspaper substrate. He is a very outgoing fella and I don't handle him except to feed him or clean out the tub. He has a great appetite and is quite the horn dog. I feed my smaller snakes out of their enclosures, when I was putting them back I accidently put a female in his enclosure. Couldn't have been more than a minute when I realized there was more than one snake in the tub, too late, he HAD her in the horn dog/player sense. lol

what do you get when you cross a ghost with a coral snow? hee hee
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2.1 Albino BP
0.4 100% Het Albino
2.1 100% het Caramel Albino BP
1.0 100% Het Clown
1.0 50% het clown
2.12 Normal BP
0.0.2 Western Hognose
alot of cornsnakes
0.1.0 Dumeril Boa
3.6 Bearded Dragons
1.0.2 Sulcatta tortoise
3.3 Russian Tortoise
1.0 Cockatiel
0.1 Rottweiler
0.2 Boston Terriers
0.1 White Boxer
0.1 Paint Mare
bunch of geckos
0.1 Cat
0.1 Teenage daughter
1.0 Husband who puts up with all my critters.

If the snow is a TRUE coral snow (hypomelanistic), then you would get ghosts het for amel.

If it was just a basic snow (with a little extra pink coloration) then you'd get Anery het amel and hypo
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"Life is Killing Me"

It sounds like you're doing everything right. Maybe he's just excited because of all the females being around (although I've never known a snake to regurge because of this).

At any rate, I'd wait 10-14 days before another feeding attempt.

Good luck!

Tim

Subject: regurge treatment

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT - once a snake has regurged, especially twice or more, it is more likely to keep on regurging until it dies, unless something is changed about its care and feeding. It is very important NOT to let this continue. PLEASE FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS BELOW VERY CAREFULLY. This is from my FAQ on regurges:

I suspect your problem is probably not bad mice, but about handling too soon, feeding too soon or too large of a meal, a stomach "bug", or improper temps. If you make these mistakes once, or even twice, it is not usually a problem if you FOLLOW MY INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY. But remember, each time it regurges, the stomach acids are depleted, and the whole electrolyte balance is thrown off more and more each time, and it makes it MORE likely that it will continue to throw up until it dies. (those consequences are just my opinions - I do not know if science backs up my conclusions, but my experience certainly does!) That is why it is so important to NOT ALLOW another regurge.

The next month or two is crucial. DO NOT feed it for AT LEAST 8 days since the last regurge. NOT ANYTHING AT ALL! Then get a newborn frozen pinky and cut it in half (or cut off just the head) If she eats it, leave her alone for a whole week. (no handling). Repeat the partial pinkie feeding the following week. Then feed a whole newborn pinkie a week after that, if there has been no regurge. Leave alone for a whole week. If she regurges, wait a week and repeat 1/2 pinkie. If she keeps it down, wait a week and repeat whole pinkie. If she holds down a couple of meals, DO NOT rush back into larger meals and more handling. Treat this seriously. Go very slowly. After 3 successful meals, go to a newborn pink every 5 days. Go back to normal feedings only after 6 successful meals. Always wait to handle until after 3 or 4 days, but only AFTER 6 successful meals. No handling until then (causes stress, need to keep stress down). And NEVER feed again right after a regurge - ALWAYS wait AT LEAST 7 or 8 days, maybe even up to 10 days, and then only feed something that was about 1/2 the size (or less) of what she regurged..

Also, be sure that temps are not too warm or cool. Try to give an area of low to mid 80s on one side and 70s on the other. Too hot or cold will cause regurges.

Grapefruit seed extract can sometimes help if the snake has some sort of "stomach bug" (any microbial problem) as it is a natural remedy that is good against many kinds of pathogens, but not as strong as an antibiotic prescribed by a doctor. This product has been used in agriculture for many years and seems to be very safe, as long as you dilute it with enough water that the acidity does not burn the tissues. A vet has told me he feels that it may somewhat alter the pH of the animal and thus change the way medicines are absorbed. So if you use this product and then take the snake to a vet, mention the treatment so it can be taken into account if the vet decides to change the prescription because of it. It is best to mix it in a glass and taste it to make sure it is not so bitter that the snake refuses to drink it. I have used it on myself and so has my husband. I find it works better on stomach problems than for other symptoms (such as respiratory - I didn't have any luck treating colds or other respiratory problems).You can buy it at a local health food store or online. Please refer to the following website for more background info:
http://www.nutriteam.com/index2.html

I have also had success with a probiotic called Nutri Bac, a fine powder containing seven different microflora that should be inhabiting the gut of reptiles, but may be absent due to stress, disease, antibiotic treatments, etc. Using the powder as a supplement will sometimes allow the reptile to get back the natural balance of microbes in its digestive tract, and then its own immune system can take over. See my website for more details.

The number of days and amounts of food, etc, suggested above are not set in stone. Other people may have success with slightly different formulas, but this is what I found works for me and many of my customers. If this protocol does not work when carefully followed, it is likely that the snake has some severe problems. Your only hope is a QUALIFIED herp vet, who may or may not be able to save your pet.

Please follow my care sheet for the first month or so when starting with new acquisitions (posted on my website for the first month's care of new corns).. The first month is crucial in getting the baby established. It is worth a little extra "coddling" for the first month in order to have a trouble free pet for the next 10 or 15 years or more.

Good luck!
Kathy Love
CONTACT INFO:

Thanks Kathy! I have ordered the Nutribac and will follow your instructions.
-----
2.1 Albino BP
0.4 100% Het Albino
2.1 100% het Caramel Albino BP
1.0 100% Het Clown
1.0 50% het clown
2.12 Normal BP
0.0.2 Western Hognose
alot of cornsnakes
0.1.0 Dumeril Boa
3.6 Bearded Dragons
1.0.2 Sulcatta tortoise
3.3 Russian Tortoise
1.0 Cockatiel
0.1 Rottweiler
0.2 Boston Terriers
0.1 White Boxer
0.1 Paint Mare
bunch of geckos
0.1 Cat
0.1 Teenage daughter
1.0 Husband who puts up with all my critters.