Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Being my first WC BRB, Eve is definitely different than the rest. When she arrived, she was a little on the cool side and gave no problem to take her out, snap a few quick picks and get her settled into her cage in the Q-room. She's in the bottom cage of a short Boaphile stack, pedestal - 3x421D - 1x421 condo. The middle 421D is empty, the upper 421D and the 421Condo has 5 Boas. One thermostat controlling just her cage and a second thermostat controlling the top two cages. The empty cage is not heated.

Being WC I expected she'd have some aggressiveness and she has shown me to be 100% correct. Yeah, that Beotch is one nasty bitey thang. So far I've avoided getting tagged but only because I give her the respect she deserves. To get her out literally requires a shield (something to block or cover her head) while I grasp her mid to lower body. So far she's not been aggressive to the hand holding her, only anything that moves around her. Case in point, last night I found she had passed urates. Just opening the door caused two strikes at the air. I used her hide bowl to cover her head and was able to pick her up without incident and put her in the empty cage directly above her. While cleaning the cage she slammed the door twice. First time she did I darn near had to clean up after myself. Getting her back was again uneventful, just used the shield/grasp lower body method and she was fine. Duh I don't trust her and will probably have to spend many hours (and Band-Aids) getting her handleable. Maybe to no avail, only time will tell.

She's been eating fine, starting her out slow with smaller prey working my way up. She's eaten everything I've thrown at her. Although seems like I have to either wiggle it or have it freshly whacked and still spazzing. Still waiting on a fecal sample, she's gone twice, both times in the water bowl. Easier to clean up but I do believe I may have seen something in the water, Saw a couple of flat, slightly oval 1/8" round things that may be parasite eggs. Duh, she's not coming out of the Q-room for quite some time.

No new pics but here are some I've already posted:

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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
19.29 BRB
13.18 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

"Almost had to clean up after yourself"- Dave I would not post that but I enjoy reading that If you are able to tame her after who knows how many years in the wild that would certainly be a great accomplishment and would certainly help with her attitude after having babies for you Hope you get some poop soon too.
Bob

LOL, tamed or not, she's still gonna be expected to provide me with little ones! One thing I've found with my females, if you take them out soon after having babies, they are fairly worn out from the process and easy to move. Hoping she'll be the same way. If not there's always welding gloves. Heck, one baby from her will pay for all the gloves/hooks/tongs etc. I could ever need to handle her.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
19.29 BRB
13.18 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Over the last 25 years I have kept many "wild caught" snakes. I also have studied aggression in Pythons in particular for over 15 years. All of my captives eventually calmed down and lost their aggressive behavior except two yellow anacondas, which I still have and are still very aggressive. Except these two, all eventually lost their fear of me, and consequently their aggressive nature towards me. I truly believe snakes are not "mean". They simply are trying to defend themselves from something they consider a threat to their existence. We probably seem like a predator about to predate upon them and therefore their survival of the fittest mechanism kicks in. I have also seen flight behavior as well. All of these snakes where purposely not handled except to clean their enclosures. Simply my presence in the snake room eventually caused them to consider me a part of their environment. Interestingly the Anacondas have always been housed in opaque enclosures (also purposely) which inhibit their ability to see me clearly. I will in the future transfer them into enclosures that will make me completely visible to see if they will also follow suit and become more tractable. So with the added handling she should calm down as long as a certain amount of interaction takes place. To me it's like a hognose snake stopping their theatrics after becoming accustomed to the surroundings and its caregiver, once again losing the fear of being predated on and therefore not considering the person a threat and no more playing dead. No need if the snake doesn't perceive a threat to it's existence. And If she don't, well, she's pretty enough to say who cares. Plus it adds to the excitement of ordinarily boring day lol. Good luck, I think she will become more tractable over time, especially if you work with her. Don't wear gloves, take the hit, and as you said, use some band aids.
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Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

Hey Frank, That's exactly what I'm hoping for. With time she'll at least get used to me and the movements around her and not percieve me as a threat. So far I've had her in hand a few times and she's not agressive towards the hand holding her which does give me hope. Of course as her head moves towards my arm a few beads of sweat appear on my brow! I did have a CBB that did not do well in stressful situations like a school presentation or show where she was coming in and out of the cage. Simply a case of not putting her in that situation.

And the gloves are only a last resort if she does not tame down. I figure I may very well have to take a hit or two to show her it doesn't chase away the bad man. And the bad man isn't all that bad, just a nuisance.

>>Over the last 25 years I have kept many "wild caught" snakes. I also have studied aggression in Pythons in particular for over 15 years. All of my captives eventually calmed down and lost their aggressive behavior except two yellow anacondas, which I still have and are still very aggressive. Except these two, all eventually lost their fear of me, and consequently their aggressive nature towards me. I truly believe snakes are not "mean". They simply are trying to defend themselves from something they consider a threat to their existence. We probably seem like a predator about to predate upon them and therefore their survival of the fittest mechanism kicks in. I have also seen flight behavior as well. All of these snakes where purposely not handled except to clean their enclosures. Simply my presence in the snake room eventually caused them to consider me a part of their environment. Interestingly the Anacondas have always been housed in opaque enclosures (also purposely) which inhibit their ability to see me clearly. I will in the future transfer them into enclosures that will make me completely visible to see if they will also follow suit and become more tractable. So with the added handling she should calm down as long as a certain amount of interaction takes place. To me it's like a hognose snake stopping their theatrics after becoming accustomed to the surroundings and its caregiver, once again losing the fear of being predated on and therefore not considering the person a threat and no more playing dead. No need if the snake doesn't perceive a threat to it's existence. And If she don't, well, she's pretty enough to say who cares. Plus it adds to the excitement of ordinarily boring day lol. Good luck, I think she will become more tractable over time, especially if you work with her. Don't wear gloves, take the hit, and as you said, use some band aids.
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>>Frank Roberts
>>Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research
>>
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
19.29 BRB
13.18 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

I am glad you understood my point about the gloves. I almost wrote a another post to explain I wasn't being a male chauvinist ( take it like a man lol ). You more intelligent than I gave you credit for.

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Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

For anyone with questions about gloves. I believe gloves just prolong the amount of time it takes to "tame" the snake. Consider it from the snakes standpoint. The ophidian is displaying defensive behavior in responce to your stimilus. Now it sees a large pair of gloves coming towards it, well that may very well make you feel "safe", but I am certain this seems almost catastrophic to the snake. When it finally becomes accustomed to the "gloves", now your bare hands will have to become accustomed to, it just prolonging the process and eventually you will get bit no matter how "tame" you think your snakes are. They are wild animals plain and simple. I spend alot of time in the snake room, no wife,kids,etc...Basicaslly I work and in my spare time study Reptiles and Amphobians, I do get out often to go Bass fishing as well, but always seem to be jumping in the water after something lol.
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Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

IMO the real point of not using gloves is if you do, the snakes will become tame to the gloves. Take them off and a new threat is percieved. Gloves should only be used as a last resort.

And like Frank is saying, no matter were thay come from, no matter how many generations of CBB, they are STILL wild animals. You need to ttreat them with the respect they deserve. IMO almost all snake bites can be traced back and attributed to the handler. You need to know your snakes, what they like and dislike, which are skittish, which are dog tame. Note the term dog tame, Funny how we use it to distinguish a "nice" non-aggressive snake yet, dogs bite people every day.

Bottom line.....PAY ATTENTION!! If your snake is fidgety, it might be aggravated to the point of striking out.

The ONLY reason Eve has not tagged me yet (Icross fingers and knock on wood) is I pay attention to her!!
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
19.29 BRB
13.18 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

maybe later it will be a HOT TOPIC!!
N/p's Frank very informative and thanks for sharing.

Hey Dave, have you thought about running some water on Eve to induce pooping which would most certainly lead to induce biting but on the other hand (the good one by then) you would be killing 2 birds with 1 stone though haha jk
Bob

I just rewet the bark in Abbi's cage, she was on the cool side and under the substrate, she popped her head up and "S" right away, as i talked to her, she struck very weakly, it hit it's mark and instead of jumping back i laughed, it was cute, how they think they are sooooo cute and big bad Arses'. Another method i use for my big Flicka which works awsome and she never has struck at me, but a hisser she is When i open the cage to remove her, i pet and talk to her,she hisses and i take a scottowel roll and pet her with that and then replace that with my hand and we are best buddies. This method of breaking the "S" intention with a different object to begin with and get them out of that and then use hands so gloves won't come into play. My baby hypo's "S" right away and i can lume over them shadow and all and reach right in with no worries, oh how we got to know eachother so well, im not afraid of their "S's. This is my method i found to work.
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1.4 various boas(Flicka,Felony,Nova,Alias,Abby)
0.1 BRB Abalone; ABBI
1.0 Rott X (OSO)
2.0 cats (Simba, Morris)
fish & feeders