Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I apologize now for this being so long!

About five months ago, my best guy friend got a 2 wk old veiled chameleon at a reptile show. Surprisingly both the tree the chameleon came with and the chameleon are both alive. Since the chameleon is kept in his bedroom I almost never see it, but he asked me to babysit it yesterday while he went on a roadtrip. So, he brought it to my house, in the cage, in the cold car, without anything covering the cage. I know being transported like that stresses out a lot of animals, so I figure it didn't help the poor chameleon much.

About two weeks ago I learned that his only "heat source" was the UVB light that came with the 'package' he got the chameleon as. Soooo I got a red heat light (60 watt) for him, because we we'd been going through a really bad cold spell and I was worried. My understanding is that for the entire time he's had the chameleon, the UVB light has been on, and since he got the heatlight, that's been on the entire time too. 24/7.

The chameleon (named muffin) arrived at my house yesterday afternoon. I set him up and covered his cage on two sides with a towel, since I have other animals and I didn't want him to see them and get stressed. I put the heat light on a dimmer and lowered it a bit (it was about 75 in my room at the time), misted him thoroughly (he drank like he was parched), and then left him alone. Only time I went near him again was when I added some crickets I'd picked up when I went food shopping for everyone else, and again to mist him before bed and turn off the UVB light.

This morning, I went to turn on the UVB light and he was asleep with his head pointing down, resting in the crook of some branches. Aw, cute. Well, after about an hour of him like that I went to mist and he just about fell off the branch, and then he seemed to be stuck on his side, feebly waving his legs around. I picked him up (put my finger where his legs were grabbing and let him climb onto me) to get a better look and he looked awful! When I first looked at him his sides seemed almost translucent, with no color over the ribs, and his head seemed to have black patches on it in the middle. He just didn't look healthy.
I took some pictures but he'd changed colors some. He couldn't seem to hold up his head or have any sort of coordination. His head looks...funky to me, although it could be just that I don't have any experience with veiled chameleons. I held him under the heat lamp for a bit, hoping maybe warming him up would help, and it did seem to. I took these pictures right after holding him under the heat lamp.

I just want to know what's going on, if anything. Is he healthy or is there something else that needs to be done? I don't think he's been getting dusted food much, if ever, although my friend does have the dust. He's been feeding muffin primarily mealworms in a little cup that he leaves in the cage.

Temps: 100 directly beneath the heatlamp, 84 2" away from the heatlamp, 72 is the ambient temperature in the room. Ambient humidity in here is 50%, and I've just put in one of my humidity gauges into the cage, since my friend didn't have one. Here are pictures of muffin:

Thanks in advance for any help!!

~jenny
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1.4 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, Periscope, and dah bebbies)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 mice (Cute Girl Mousy)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
0.0.5 tropical fish (tetras and a neon blue gourami)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
0.0.1 chupacabra (it ate our chickens)

jenny.thegreenes.org

I just talked to my friend about what's going on and apparently muffin's been acting like this for a few days. I'm finding out now how often muffin's been fed, if he's been drinking, is there anything else I should ask?
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1.4 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, Periscope, and dah bebbies)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 mice (Cute Girl Mousy)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
0.0.5 tropical fish (tetras and a neon blue gourami)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
0.0.1 chupacabra (it ate our chickens)

jenny.thegreenes.org

Is muffin a boy or a girl??
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TFFF
(Tootie Freakin' Fruity Feenie)

I'm really not sure, although after looking at pictures on this forum and elsewhere I am leaning towards female.
-----
1.4 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, Periscope, and dah bebbies)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 mice (Cute Girl Mousy)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
0.0.5 tropical fish (tetras and a neon blue gourami)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
0.0.1 chupacabra (it ate our chickens)

jenny.thegreenes.org

ya, muffin looks like a girl.. Can you feel her tummy for eggs?? Her head looks a little swollen. It's hard to tell, but she may just be too warm as well... I would start off with a nice warm shower and see if she perks up after that... Also I would be curious to hear her feeding routine and her supplements. Here's my girly Rana!!

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TFFF
(Tootie Freakin' Fruity Feenie)

I'll check her tummy out and then give her a shower after my job interview. I thought her head looked funny, do you think it could be from sleeping upside down?

Her tummy feels hard and actually when I look at her close there's almost a bulge behind the ribcage. Just to be safe I'll set up a place for her to lay her eggs, I think I saw a post about that farther down.

Goodness. She's on my hand looking at me and she just gave this huge sigh and closed her eyes. Poor thing.

~jenny
-----
1.4 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, Periscope, and dah bebbies)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 mice (Cute Girl Mousy)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
0.0.5 tropical fish (tetras and a neon blue gourami)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
0.0.1 chupacabra (it ate our chickens)

jenny.thegreenes.org

I don't think the head issue is from sleeping upside down. That is usually where they store extra fat. Does it feel soft at all?? If she were my cham I would give her a shower, put her cage in a warm room, take out the heat light and just put in a normal 40 watt bulb. Maybe put her a bucket with some sand, just in case, and cover her cage and leave her alone for a few days. I wouldn't try to feed her again until this weekend. Maybe she is just tired and stressed out. I would also make an appointment to check to see if she is gravid, they can tell with a quick x-ray. That would require a whole different course of action.

Keep us posted!!
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TFFF
(Tootie Freakin' Fruity Feenie)

She's really worrying me now, she's on her side on the bottom of the ficus tree, and her breathing is really labored. Should I go ahead with the warm shower or just cover her up and leave her?

I've just put in the lil tub with sand in it. Does it have to be deep?

It's not my chameleon and I don't have the money for a vet visit... I mean, I have emergency money saved up for my animals but if it needs a vet visit I'll make my friend do it instead of getting the ferret he was planning on getting. Grrrrr I am so frustrated right now.

She's back up in the tree but lookin like she's having coordination issues. Whoo man.

~jenny
-----
1.4 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, Periscope, and dah bebbies)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 mice (Cute Girl Mousy)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
0.0.5 tropical fish (tetras and a neon blue gourami)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
0.0.1 chupacabra (it ate our chickens)

jenny.thegreenes.org

You said..."I got a red heat light (60 watt) for him, because we we'd been going through a really bad cold spell and I was worried"...it was definitely a good idea to get it a heat source...but I don't think a chameleon recognizes a heat lamp as a light and it would look for a light source to warm up under. It should get turned off at night. As long as the room temperature isn't cold at night there is no need for a heat source.

You said..."My understanding is that for the entire time he's had the chameleon, the UVB light has been on, and since he got the heatlight, that's been on the entire time too. 24/7"...chameleons need darkness at night....so the UVB light only needs to be on for 12 to 14 hours a day depending on the season....and as I explained, the heat light doesn't need to be on at night either. Chameleons can likely see the red light too BTW.

You said..."after about an hour of him like that I went to mist and he just about fell off the branch, and then he seemed to be stuck on his side, feebly waving his legs around" and "He couldn't seem to hold up his head or have any sort of coordination" and "I don't think he's been getting dusted food much"...in the pictures you attached, the chameleon doesn't seem to be raising its body off your hand...can it? Does it? Or does it normally rest on the branches and your hand? The fact that it has trouble not falling and didn't right itself when it fell over and waved its legs around, since it lacked a basking area and may have lacked supplements and appears to have bone issues in its arms near the elbows, I'm wondering if it has MBD. I'm not a vet so I can only tell you what I think. However...whatever is going on with this chameleon, I think it should go to a vet ASAP.

If it does have MBD the vet can give her injections of calcium and when the blood levels are high enough, a shot of calcitonin to draw the calcium back into the bones.

BTW, do the insects get gutloaded?

His head looks...funky to me, although it could be just that I don't have any experience with veiled chameleons....I don't think that the pads on the head are anything to worry about.

She doesn't look dehydrated.

Its still a good idea (as was already mentioned) to have a place for her to lay eggs should she have any. Failure to do so could lead to eggbinding and eventually death.

You said..."Temps: 100 directly beneath the heatlamp, 84 2" away from the heatlamp, 72 is the ambient temperature in the room. Ambient humidity in here is 50%"...this sounds okay.

I imagine that you know most of the following since you have water dragons...but I'll mention it just in case...
Its important to have a proper basking temperature because the chameleon needs to be warm enough to digest its food...thus absorb nutrients from its diet.

Most insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorous so dusting the insects with a phosphorous-free calcium powder helps to make up for this.

Preformed vitamin A and vitamin D3 from supplements can build up in the chameleon's system if overdosed. Also, too much preformed vitamin A will prevent the D3 from doing its job and can lead to MBD. Beta carotene sources of vitamin A won't cause an overdose but there is controversy over whether a chameleon can convert beta carotene to vitamin A or not.

I hope your friend will do what is necessary to help his chameleon before its too late.

>>it was definitely a good idea to get it a heat source...but I don't think a chameleon recognizes a heat lamp as a light and it would look for a light source to warm up under. It should get turned off at night. As long as the room temperature isn't cold at night there is no need for a heat source.

Depends on what "cold at night" is for a chameleon. It's been 65 in my bedroom at night, and everyone else has some sort of nighttime heat, either in the form of a heatpad or red heat light. The heat light is next to the UVB light, so when the cham is under the UVB light she is also near enough to the heat light to get warm.

>>chameleons need darkness at night....so the UVB light only needs to be on for 12 to 14 hours a day depending on the season....

I have tried explaining this to my friend but I'm not sure he listens. I'll try again.

>>in the pictures you attached, the chameleon doesn't seem to be raising its body off your hand...can it? Does it?

She can't seem to unless she panics and tries to make a bid to escape, which she did when I tried to feel for eggs. I haven't touched her since, but she's back on the dirt in her tree's pot.

>>However...whatever is going on with this chameleon, I think it should go to a vet ASAP.

That's my thought too. I'll pass it on.

>>BTW, do the insects get gutloaded?

Nope. She's been getting mealworms exclusively, and he dusted by dropping them into the dust, then picking them out with tweezers and putting them in the 'bowl' in the cage. From personal experience, I know the mealworms will get undusted pretty quick.

>>Its still a good idea (as was already mentioned) to have a place for her to lay eggs should she have any. Failure to do so could lead to eggbinding and eventually death.

I've set up a little egg laying place for her just in case.

Thank you very much for your information and your help. I'll pass this along, and hopefully the weight from someone other than me will get him to do the right thing.

~jenny
-----
1.4 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, Periscope, and dah bebbies)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 mice (Cute Girl Mousy)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
0.0.5 tropical fish (tetras and a neon blue gourami)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
0.0.1 chupacabra (it ate our chickens)

jenny.thegreenes.org

Hi there,
I would have agree to get this poor girl to the vet. And Mealworms as a main source of diet food are a bad idea!! They are full of fat and the skin is not easy to digest... When I get home I'll take a pic of my set up for my female cham and mail it to ya. Poor baby, I hope she can pull through..
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TFFF
(Tootie Freakin' Fruity Feenie)

Hi, newbie here and I don't know how to post a new thread. Fortunately, this topic is much the same situation I am experiencing right now. I have a female veiled chameleon, about 6 or 7 months old. She is lethargic; shows no interest in the crickets in the cage. We have been 'force feeding' her crickets and vitamin supplements. We have the correct heating, humidity and drinking water source in her mesh enclosure. She looks much like "Muffin" in the photo. She has also been provided with a sandbox to lay eggs if need be. What else can be done, besides the vet? Her food is dusted with calcium, she has UVA/UVB lighting during the day. I love her dearly and don't want to lose her. Same problem as the gal that started this thread. Help??