Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was wondering if anyone was having reliable breeding success with black tree monitors or V. melinus? I would like to see some set-up and environmental needs.

Thanks,
AH

V. melinus aren't tree monitors.

www.treemonitors.com

good starting point.

My bad! I am aware of their general habits after having kept them for a short time in the 90s (when they were $1000 each) while at the St. Louis Zoo. My posting should have been more clear that these are the two types of monitors I am interested in seeing how others are keeping them now. We didn't know too much about them when they were first brought in and I have been away from the hobby for about 7 years.
Did you have any practical advice?

AH

No this poor smuck has no experiance breeding either species.

However the link I provided has a lot of members listed that work with tree monitors some with V. beccarii in particular, I listed it as I thought it might be a good place to start.

As far as V. melinus, Neal a farily frequent poster here, keeps the species. Perhaps he can shed some light on the information you seek.

Although we he said and I quote;

"If I make it clear that I have food or they approach of their own accord out of curiosity, some interaction is possible. Otherwise they seem upset by any intrusions into their cage" Neal Fri Mar 23

He summed up the potential enjoyment of keeping this species.

Best of Luck

Thanks. I will take a look. I bred the blacks back in the late 90s, but then I left St. Louis and didn't have access to the animals any longer. I think they hatched a few more out after I left. I left the zoo field AND the hobby about 7 years ago, and I am starting to miss these buggers! So, I am thinking of easing my way back in.

AH

Well welcome back, my only advice is to read what you can, evaluate others experiances and tread lightly.

There is a lot of info out there, not all of its right not all of its wrong. I myself have been reading on tree's for a few years now but don't plan on getting one for awhile still. You can read everything you want and not know a thing. Nothing can teach you like experiance.

You are fortunate enough to have some experiance, I myself am working my way up, there are no answers.

I think Frank said it best when he said there are no right answers, you can only herd them in the direction that proves the best success. Granted herd may not be the best word but IMO it got the point across.

Best of Luck.
-----
Jeremy

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's
1.1 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's
1.0 Double Het Stripe Albino RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
0.0.9 Red Bearded Dragons
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.3 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse
1.0 Child

When you say, I bred, that should mean you. Not a zoo. At a zoo, Your are part of a team that works with animals.

At a zoo, the support and the decisions are made by many and often times you as an individual have no control.

The point is, did you purchase the animals, the cages, the food, pay the electric bills, control the building conditions etc. All of these are an important part in breeding these animals. Not simply cleaning the cage and feeding as told.

Lastly, as a zoo keeper, your paid to service the animals, privately your not paid, in fact, it cost you. Unfortunately cost is a very very key part of varanid husbandry.

These and more are very important to consider. So did you breed them, or were you at a zoo that bred them?

IF thats all it takes, then I bred lions, tigers, gorillas, many other primates, etc etc etc.

Or are you saying you worked at a zoo that bred them. Cheers

Frank, a few of the things you said were incorrect assumptions.

First, the zoos that have seperate herp taxon buildings usually operate under assignments. The keeper is assigned to a section and all the animals in that section. At St. Louis, there were 4 keepers for about 1000 animals. I cared for 29 exhibits plus the 3 times as many animals that were downstairs off exhibit. The only care provided other than the keeper's was on his weekend when the supervisor would check in on those animals. The keeper was responsible for all aspects of building the exhibit, providing the heat and light, and feeding regiment. It was like that at all but one other zoo I visited.

Second, just because I didn't have to pay for the animals or the electric bill in NO way invalidates the care that was provided to encourage breeding. What if I had a rich relative who provided me with everything I wanted to raise and breed monitors. Under your rules, that wouldn't count. That is just plain baloney and you know it.

Tomorrow I am taking nearly 100 of my students up to St. Louis to look at the animals I used to take care of. Want to come along? St. Louis's Herpetarium is one of the largest and nicest in the country.

Seriously, though .... I will be happy to provide a detailed description of the exhibit and the husbandry involved. I did miss the repeat performance. (I am honest if nothing else) I took a supervisory position at another zoo for a 67% increase in pay and was not involved in the second clutch that was laid and hatched. Yes. I sold out for the money.

I bred them.

AH

Good defense, except the zoo bred them, and your only a part of the zoo.

Its very funny how people want accurate information from me, but do not offer accurate information about what they do.

Its true then, I did breed lions, tigers and gorillas. And much much more. Heck, I not only was a keeper, but an exhibit builder too.

Anyway, no matter, I understand now. Cheers

You are certainly welcome to your opinion as am I. I would venture a guess that anyone reading these postings and familiar with the circumstances would agree that I bred the monitors. The zoo has not done it since I left and the last clutch of eggs was incubating. The komodoensis I raised up laid eggs without having a male, and developed some problems over time as a result. She died after I left.
You seem to be incapable of admitting that there are people besides yourself who are successful with monitors. Just in the St. Louis area there are 2 other people who routinely bred 3 species plus hybrids during the late 1990s and early 2000s. One changed to almost exclusively breeding frogs, his real passion, and the other had trouble finding buyers for babies and cut back to just ackies.
I sure wish you would use your experience and wisdom to help people instead of putting all that energy into insult. You have some things to share.

AH

I do not have problems, it appears you do. When I worked at zoos, I gave the zoo credit. Work I do on my own, is on my own. All the friends I have/had at zoos were the same way.

You appear to be the one with the ego problem. As you are claiming credit for a zoo project. Even if they never did it again. Have you did it again since you left the zoo?

About the KD that appears to be a common problem. The private fella that bred them, called me and asked what I thought the problem was, he said that many females are dying with reproductive complications.

I explained, that is no different then with all other monitors, poor nesting causes reproductive problems. Also, simply taking the male away does not stop that. It actually makes it worse.

good luck with your project. and I could careless about who else breeds monitors, my hope is, we all learn, kinda why I keep babbling on here. The point is, in this case we are not talking about everyone else, just you. Your little accusation(deversion) is so, Hmmmmmm common. surely you can do better then that. Cheers

Regarding komodoensis, that reproductive problem was expected. Alas, breeding them was not on the list of to-do. The same thing happens in iguanas and many others.
Believe me, I am about as far from egocentric as you can get. I usually imagine I am at fault for things even when I am not. I just allowed myself to get caught up in the moment.
This all started with my asking for current advice on what keepers are using to house these animals and if there are any "new" ideas. There have got to be people keeping these things, or do they just not use this forum?

FR, did you have any information to add to that?

Thanks,
AH

Nothing new, just support them with a range of temps, from cool to a little hotter then they will use. Offer them materials they understand. Allow them many secure choices, so they can obtain conditions they require both while out and while in(hiding). Limit dehydration, this is very important. Feed whole foods. Work at getting compatable pairs, actually learn what a compatable pair is. Blacktrees are very tolerant in this area. Provide large nesting. Do not be limited by human paradigms, like having nesting smaller then the cage. Nesting can be bigger then the cage. Nope, I cannot think of anything new, cheers

Its quit disconcerting to learn that a zoo can actually acquire a pair of KD and not think about basic biology fundamentals, surly they cant be dumb enough not to think a healthy female can produce eggs?

Hears something new, keepers ask the wrong questions (what habitat) (what temps) to other keepers or they rely on literature. This is a wrong approach and will lead to failure.

You should take your monitors and set them up very simple, play with heat and Hydration until they feed well, let feeding Guide your husbandry.

It’s easier to add and have control on your lizard’s performance then it is to subtract from a complex habitat not knowing why your lizards are failing.

Now your really letting the cat out of the bag, hahahahahahahaha.

K.I.S.S. equals keep it simple stupid.

There are some many complicated things about keeping monitors, but the cages are not one of them. Cheers

jobi,
Just to clear up, we didn't have a pair of komodos. We just had the one. Actually, it was from that first clutch hatched at the National Zoo. Got it when it was about 2 feet long. It was spit in a hot skillet at that size, but after taking care of her for several years, she became quite laid back. VERY curious animal. She would explore anything brought into the exhibit ...... but I am babbling again. Just one animal, though.

The other thing is that every zoo has their "purpose" which IS directed by other people like the director or zoo board. First and foremost, ours was to exhibit and educate. We wanted visitors to see the animal in its natural habitat. The individuals off exhibit were kept in stock tanks (tubs) and some large indoor/outdoor enclosures that I helped design. Summers in this part of MO are hot with humidities around 90-98%. We wanted to get the crocs, peach-throats, quince, and mangroves outside.

AH