Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Just want to share a pic of my new wild caught genetic striped female.

very cool, it certainly has its own "unique" look.

very nice, but how do you call it genetic if it is new and wild caught?
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

I hope it proves genetic for you it is a very nice looking animal, good luck with it!
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Greg Power
B.O.A. Inc
boainc@gmail.com

Would you guys call a new WC Albino an Albino, or would someone have to prove it out first?

You can't produce Albinos from temp flucuation!

a "genetic stripe" you would have to bred it and prove it out. It is well known that striping can be caused by sub optimal gestation and or incubation temperatures, there are literally thousands of snakes out there with striping that was temperature induced.( and therefore not genetic in nature ) To call a striped wild import "genetic" is very optimistic and jumping the gun. I hope it is, because that is a VERY nice animal and it's coloration is VERY nice to boot!!!!

I am very confident Robyn didn't mean anything malignant, he was just questioning the presumption that a wild caught animal is in fact genetically striped.
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Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

calling it genetic is REALLY counting the chickens before they hatch. first it must live. then it must not escape, get stepped on, lost, etc.

then it must be viable to breed. then it must breed. then it must produce eggs. good eggs. then they must hatch. then you can make a determination (perhaps) on genetics. this is reptile breeding, not ice making, LOTS of things go wrong, LOTS of things never breed, LOTS of things are unproven.

certainly that is a great looking animal. gorgeous. certainly it makes a strong visual case for being a probable genetic case. but it should be said "look at my new wild caught stripe". oohs and aaahs still follow.

i just saw ads for a "new line of cinammon", a new "burgandy" and a new "Ghost" all from the same seller, all wild imports with zero genetic background. the only difference from this claim is that the ad is actually stating non-facts in order to part folks from thier money. this guy is just sharing a pic. sharing a pic with a poor choice of words, but innaccurate nonetheless. for now.

we have enough problems in the hobby with sheisters and swindlers, folks need to strive that much harder to maintain integrity and label animals accurately.

i would like to cross this type of stripe into a number of balls, i hope it turns out to be genetic, that would be great. in the meantime, really nice looking wild stripe.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

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Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

Robyn, I just thought it was "funny" that PE of all people were the first to question the guy about a wicked looking Striped snake, that looks exactly like my Genetic Striped male, because of your post a few threads down about your Wild Stripe, and it producing "Double Hets" and "Hets" and "Possible Hets." I just thought it was kind of ironic.

As far as YOUR snake, the PE Wild Stripe: I talked to a Major Breeder not too long ago, about my two projects, and eventually the conversation turned to genetics. Now, I thought I pretty much knew all I needed to know about Ball Python genetics, wow, I was wrong, and I was blown away by how much this guy knew. At some point in the conversation, he said that he felt there were more "types" of genes working that just Simple Recessive and Dom/Co Dom. The point he made was using a gold stiped Ball as an example, saying that it was genetic, but that you could not predict the outcome of a gold stipe breeding, like you can with Simple Recessive and Co Dom breedings. If you want to email me, I will give the breeders name to you, he was VERY interesting, and his knowledge seemed right up your Wild Stripe's alley.

the whole point is that animal is labeled genetic, when it hasn't even begun to be proven.

are you sure that is the same type of situation as our Wild Stripe line? check out the FAQ on PE Wild Striping below. i discuss in more detail how i am not sure how the genetics work.

HOWEVER- we have bred this line again and again. we have made normal color wild stripes, morph wild stripes, even "double hets" from Ghost and Wild Stripe that were normal looking, raised for three years, and bred back together to make Ghost Wild Stripes.

that is a MUCH MUCH MUCH different experience than buying a very weird and cool looking snake and labeling it genetic.

again, i would love to have the stripe Ball at the start of this thread. but as cool as it looks, calling it genetic one day into keeping it is not any different than sheisters that insinuate false genetics on the classifieds. we need MORE integrity in this hobby, not less : )
FAQ on PE Wild Stripe line breeding

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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Robyn, first thing, I do not think the OP just bought a "weird snake" and then labeled it a genetic stripe. I think he bought a snake that looked exactly like a Genetic Stripe and labeled it as such. Again, he is not selling anything, so I do not see a problem.

As far as your snake, I was talking with the big breeder on the phone, and the wild type stripe issue was brought up in genetic talk. If you want the guys name, feel free to email me, and I will tell you who I was talking too, and you can contact them privately, they might be able to add to your knowledge on your snake.

Dave

looks "exactly like a Genetic Stripe"? that doesn't look like any g stripe i have ever seen!

and actually he DID just buy it and then label it genetic, that is the whole point : )

sure, please email me the breeder's name on the wild stripe issue, that would be appreciated. robyn@proexotics.com, thanks!
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Except for the faded coloring on the new snake, I think it looks just like this male.

Dave

uhh, no : )

have you bred that particular animal? what were the results of that?

except for the funny coloring, a Lesser looks just like a normal : )
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Robyn, my particular male is from the Cryptic Genetic Stripe line from EBN, and has been proven to be a Genetic Stripe, which should throw full and partially striped animals, but the full understanding of the Cryptic is still under investigation. I have a Het G Stripe female for this male, and would like to aquire a fully striped G Stripe female for him too.

Dave

PE wild thing is more of black back not a striped ball at all.....

I been making black backs for years........and sell them as normal cause noone really cares and offers to pay a nickel more for them.......even white backed albinos..........yet another breeder was selling black backs for $4000 a few years ago.......
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you are right I am wrong...............yours (PE)is more the stiped affect not the black back thing........I must have had a brain fart as they say.......

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show us one temp caused striped ball....zig-zag....anything........

too much temp fluctuations can cause death....noone will post them pics....

yes it has been said and most likely proven striping can be caused by low temps.......I've seen boas that were said to be produced that way.....full striped.......noone knows...they died and were never bred....long ago.....

I've not seen or heard of a ball that was temp induced striped........

..........I really would like to see this..not just whining here.......

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THAT THING IS SO NICE........IT HAS TO BE GENETIC SOMETHING..................

and you know you would all buy it if you could........look at it..........

............good luck...........
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*Note to self*

On this date, the 23rd of March, in the year 2007, I actually agreed for the first time with J...o..y..oe.....or however you spell it!

Jeffrey Yohe ..........damn.....write it down..if you hate me that much you better at least remember my name......

hahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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I never said I hated you, just that I never have agreed with you before. Big difference.

Dave

I know........anyways........

.......I just find it fascinating that your last name is Ball.......what an odd coincidence......

did the kids call you names in school like ashey....charcoal......(ember.get it....anyways.)....

.....J/K........

........Yohe...................(pronounced YO)......LOL
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and yes there are thousands of temperature induced pattern anomalies in many different types of snakes, I happen to think this is genetic, but until it's proven, It's just a wild caught striped ball python, not a def genetic trait. PLAIN AND SIMPLE!!!
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Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

We are talking about Ball Pythons, not Corn Snakes, and not Leopard Geckos. Temp flux in Balls will kill the eggs, or cause deformities, but I have not heard of it producing amazing patterns, but I am not saying I know everything either.

Dave

well I did not know Ball Pythons where unique as compared to all other boids that have produced striping that was caused by temp variations, I am not talking Corn Snakes, and or Leopard Geckos, I am talking BCI, BCC, Python reticulatus, Python molurus bivittatus, and especially Python curtus. Temp changes indeed can cause the development of lethal congenital defects including but not limited to death in utero. I am not arguing there, but to say striping is not well documented in Boids, is ludicrous. I even think this particular specimen is a probable genetic carrier, but until documented with a proven breeding, it is premature to say so with any degree of certainty.
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Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

it proves once again we fight and argue over the stupidest crap in ball python forum........

yep

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not one pic ......ever...........years on here......

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Personally I think anyone that would intentchenaly {not shore of the spelling} play with the temps on eggs of a species were we already know threw years of breeding accidents that it will cause death or deformities should be charged with animal cruelty . It would be no different if we didn’t already know what happens when temps are to high or to low or fluctuate BUT WE DO so it is criminal to do so on per pass . Thanks David of DS Reptile Rescue

Not really, Phillipe de vosjoli would produce insane black backs by temp fluctuations....on purpose.....

Well... you might have to go back a little while for this one. Maybe Tracy at VPI or Kevin at NERD would remember. About 15 years ago the were the "unproven" Saddlebacks (yes ball python). They were never proven genetic but the pattern variation was considered temperature related and inconsistent. So It does happen in BPs.

As for this animal… It looks awesome and I do hope it proves out. I love the reduced side pattern. Looks really clean.
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Larry Walker

WebSite

I know that we have to prove it before we could call it a genetic striped. I think that she is doing very good. She started feeding the first day i got her. So i´m pretty positiv on this one.

What a great project! I really hope she proves out... would make some cool crosses.

Good luck
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Larry Walker

WebSite

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snakes...all species.......some work.....

like I said..somebody...show us a ball.......

there are thousands of stripey looking and black back looking balls.........genetic and not really genetic....

........that snake is one of a kind........
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I thought genetic striped was the name of the morph...they are not called striped....or anything else....they are called genetic stripes....he didnt claim it was a genetic genetic striped....

LOL - I was thinking the same thing

Beautiful animal - I hope it proves out!
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Tosha

I agree he never claimed it was genetic he just said what it was sold as. You see people that post wild albinos, wild ghosts, wild yellow bellies and that is all ok, bc they dont say genetic albino, genetic ghost and so on, he didnt call is a genetic genetic stripe just called it by a name.

Also i would love ... PLEASE IM BEGGING .... To see any one post a picture of an animal that looks like that one and that was from an inacurate temp change in a CB clutch and then proved out to be normal, please someone prove me wrong !!! I have been breeding Balls for years and never have i seen anything that extreme, maybe oddities or color differences but never anything like that, so please lets see some pics

Kim

nice man

Yeah, my thoughts exactly!!! Holy cow -

the only problem is, that this guy is probably in a wheelchair now b/c he HAD to have paid all his limbs off for that thing!!!

What a find
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RicK & Caitlyn @ Ball Boutique, Inc.

Ball Boutique,Inc.
Proud sponsor of this forum

NICE, so what is her history?

My male would love to meet her!

Dave

I love the side patterning on that g. stripe...nice!!!

Gorgeous!! Best of luck with proving her out as she is unproven as of now as a Gen Stripe (but it looks promising).
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....I would rather have a Bottle in front of me.....than a Frontal Lobotomy....

Rob Trenor
RK Reptiles
www.rkreptiles.com
www.rkreptiles.net
www.ballpythonmorphs.net

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It IS a gorgeous snake. I like the almost gray coloration. But I have to agree with the others about it being genetic. I DO wish you luck in proving it out though.

Quig

And Rob, some days I'd rather have the frontal lobotomy
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

cinnamon-ish? Atleast from what I can see from the head and such. That's a beauty either way and I hope it proves out. If it does, sign me up.

-John

One last thing, in the original post, he is calling it his "WC genetic Stiped female," which might just be a discriptive term, and might not be saying he thinks/knows it is genetic for sure...at least that is how I reread his post.

The same way someone could call a WC Hypo a Hypo, as a discriptive term, saying it looks like a Hypo, or in his case, my new snake looks like what a G Stripe looks like.

Dave

He should of just called it a "WC Striped". It is unproven. Doesn't matter how much it may look like something else, until it breeds and reproduces its genes it is unproven.

but we dont call ghosts genetic ghosts they are just called ghosts, there are many snakes called stripes that look nothing like that, that animals looks like a geneic stripe, if he was implying it was genetic he would have had to of called it a genetic genetic stripe
Kim

but that snake looks nothing like the clark line genetic stripe. The color and pattern are totally different from every g-stripe i have seen, even yours. The term genetic stripe is used as a name of a morph just like albino is a morph, ghost is a morph, axanthic is a morph and clown is a morph. if someone imports an animal that looks exactly like an albino, it's an albino. if that snake looked like the g-stripes then there wouldn't be this huge debate that is causing us to waste our time (me included, lol). Nobody has ever imported an albino that bred and it didn't prove out (at least that I'm aware of). But people have brought in many strange, striped animals that didn't prove to be genetic, so implying this is either a clark line genetic stripe or just a "genetic stripe" (which implying that he is saying that it looks like it will prove is over-stretching a bit) without even breeding it once is misleading at best.

Do i think that will prove out, probably. If that snake proves to be a g-stripe (g-stripe is the term we all use for clark line genetic stripes) it will blow away every other g-stripe out there, however I bet if it does prove out it is something different, maybe even co-dom like the motley boa but i bet this will have a super of an all white snake, lol.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

That is a gorgeous snake! Good luck!

;

call it a smolder or forest fire or car crash, train wreck, tsunami or something else really really cool and then post as many pics on as many threads as I could even if my snake had nothnig to do with the topic! Yeah........ thats what I would do.
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Greg Power
B.O.A. Inc
boainc@gmail.com

Dennis,regardless of the controversy youu have a real looker there.Good Luck proving her out.
Kevin

www.KMSREPTILES.com
Link