Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Okay so this morning Fred went poo? again although this time it was all clear liquid. Is this peeing? or is this not a good sign? Over all Fred apears to be fine his coloring is good hes drinking and eating fine. temps and humidity have been good. high 70's during the day mid to high 60's at night. 50% or more humidity. This morning though he did this thing where he opened his mouth and then appeared to shake? is that a defense thing? Hes in one of the large exo terra glass cages since we have issues with humidity, maybe he was fighting with his reflection?! I have aquarium background paper up on both side walls and the back has the nifty rock wall thing. Hes been siting around with his mouth open a lot, im pretty sure its not dehydration no sinking of the eyes and ive seen him drink several times.

Waiting to hear from tyler or someone from bluebeast about a custom cage. Tyler if you read this contact me at 406-351-2509 or email adam_schiesser@yahoo.com ill be calling you Monday.

BTW Fred is a near 9mo Jackson

Anyone have any input? i know how fragile these guys are and itll just devastate me to lose him.

I would say it's too cold - tho I have veileds. only high 70s is too low to digest food. YOu need a basking spot MUCH higher than that - 100/110 basking for MOST reptiles is neccessary. your guy probably has food impacted and is eating/drinking like normal but can't DIGEST the food! up those temps ASAP! Lows should be no lower than 70 ever no matter what...

Soak him in warm water or give a warm shower to see if you can de-constipate him, too - he'll be more comfortable then. (shower him on a plant, with padding underneith in case he jumps so he doesn't get hurt). If he doesn't like the shower, use a bath even if he doesn't like it - only a few minutes tops if it's a problem for him

Call the vet and see if you should bring him in, since it could be impaction for him - that can turn deadly... Good luck!

~Buggzter

What would be to high of a temp? I could easily make it mid to high 80's. his basking area is 80's he sits there most of the time but with his mouth open, at first i thought maybe he was dehydrated. If they have food impacted will that cause them to sit with there mouths open?

Unfortunately in Montana nothing is open on Sundays so the vet will have to wait until to tomorrow i was thinking of taking him with us to the big city and having him checked out just for good measure tomorrow anyhow.

Ideally the temp of air in the cage should be 77 with a basking spot of 85-90 - they ARE in need of slightly cooler temps than veileds... And a 10 degree drop at night is "suggested" (this is all from what I've found from numerous places online I've trusted before). Also, humidity "should" be between 50-75%. And yes, a vet check is the BEST THING POSSIBLE. If you can bring a sample or at least a picture of the excrement from this morning and other days, it might help most - try to get any future ones before you get him to the vet. Good luck!
~Buggzter

Okay so i upped the temp to around 85 in the warm side and around 72 on the cooler side of the cage. Id say right under his light its around 90-95. He didn't seem to like the shower much he turned dark during and for a little while after, he always trys to escape the misting. He is still doing the mouth gaping thing off and on. We will see what happens over the next few hours. All in all he seems fine hes vary active other then darkening for the shower, his color is his normal greenish blueish.

It sounds like you need to get yourself a more accurate thermometer. The gauge I saw in your pic looked like an analogue thermometer, and those are usually not very reliable (although it might have been a hygrometer, but the analogue versions of those are even more inaccurate).

Make sure you have a digital thermometer, preferably one with an external probe that you can set up directly under the basking spot. Even better would be to have an infrared thermometer so that you can measure the actual surface temp of your basking cham.

You said, "his basking area is 80's he sits there most of the time but with his mouth open".
They usually gape when they are hot. It helps to dissipate heat, in the same way a dog pants.
So neither impaction nor dehydration will cause this, but a hot basking spot would. Low 80's doesn't seem very hot, and that's why I question the accuracy of your thermometer.
However, even when the basking spot is at the correct temperature, the cham will gape from time to time. If the cham is constantly gaping though or gaping even when they're not at the basking spot, then either the basking area/enclosure is too hot, or there are other problems (for instance, chams sometimes gape when they have respitory infections).

>>I would say it's too cold - tho I have veileds.

Holy hold-on-a-minute Batman!!!
Jacksons are used to cool mountain temperatures - lost of mist and rain; cool breezes - not an yemen wadis with very little shade!

We have kept/raised/ a lot of jax - and we never let the temperatures rise above 80F. Do some web surfing before you recommend higher temperatures to someone with a montane species of chameleon!

Morgana
Reptayls, Ltd.

Yea the vet said the same thing there a MT species and cooler is normal. At any rate as I posted in the last post, Fred has a clean bill of a health and ill maintain the mid 70's temps and mid to high 60's at night as I was before. Lots of mist, fogger so on and so forth.

Okay, so i went back and read a section in the forums about mouth gaping and it says something about possibly being URI, What ever it is im puzzled. He shows no other signs of anything being wrong other then the liquedy poo and the gaping. It says something in the other post about sleeping with his head up might show URI hes not doing that right now hes sound asleep head down mouth closed color good. Im a little afraid to take him to the vet as its a 2 hour drive and will be in town for a few hours on top of that so were talking like 6-7 hours out of his house, that concerns me but... all posts say the vet is best so im going to risk it.

Clarification on gaping:

When a cham is basking and has just about reached the "too hot" phase under a basking light, they often gape. Remember, ironically most herps do not have that many temperature sensors in their skin and there is a bit of a lag before they realize they are hot. Gaping and turning a pale color (pale colors reflect heat away, dark colors absorb heat) are the ways they show a high body temp. Once they reach daily "operating temp" they move out of the heat if they can. Once they move, the gaping should stop in a few minutes. If your cham is spending most of its time under the basking spot and NOT gaping, it may be too cool in the cage generally.

A cham with a respiratory infection (Upper Respiratory Infection or pneumonia) will show other signs besides gaping. They will gape, but it is more of a series of hard gulping and swallowing, puffing their gular pouch over and over, ribs working in and out, not eating or drinking, not moving much if any, their mouth may show a lot of sticky saliva. They often perch still and dark with their head tilted straight up...trying to breathe more easily.

Does this help?

Also, you don't want the cage to stay above 70F at night. The night temp drop is important, especially with montane species.

Ya this is vary helpful. Vet said my cham was fine so its most likely temp regulation.

It may very well be just him gaping, and they SWAY back and forth, they are acting like a leaf blowing in the wind to fool a preditor, he may feel a bit threatened by you, and they will do that. So funny that we are to think they are a leaf,,,, hhehehe I get a kick out it.

Hopefully thats all he is doing. Keep an eye on him. But if he's otherwise healthy, then he's probably just swaying.
-----
PHEve / Eve

Contact PHEve

He doesn't sway all that much. The gaping seems to be mainly under the basking lamp although yesterday he was doing it else where. And tygger i have Both analog and digital thermoms in there and two analog hygrometers in there. The side of the cage where i have the digital thermom i have the sensor down near the bottom but ill move it up closer to the basking light to get a more accurate reading on the temp under it. I raised the temps in general yesterday, maybe thats why he seemed to be gaping more? the temp right now is 76 and he hasn't done the gaping thing yet this morn. The post i read about the URI said to maintain a constant temp and humidity threw out the night so i did, maybe he dos have a URI. If he gapes before its time for us to leave to the big city hes going with us to the vet. If he doesn't I'm not going to take him out of his home for 7 hours. Hes his normal active self as usual running around the cage and his color is great.

BTW Thank you everyone for the responses. Ill keep updating till I know for a fact he is fine and more so if theres any changes that would be for the worse.

hey
with URI,some serious signs would be him having mucus coming out of his nose and having problems breathing..gaping is normal i think,especially under the basking light..but if your temps are all wrong,then that could help create a URI..i also thought my lil guy had a URI when he was younger,soo i took him to the vet and the vet told me he was the best looking chameleon hes ever had brought in...soo i made the mistake and panicked,if your vet is a round trip of 7 hours,i'd suggest to try to get clear evidence that he does have a URI,but if your convinced that he does you should just take him cause it's best to catch a infection or any other type of thing that could go wrong early instead of at the last minute..sooo just make sure to keep a close eye on him and hopefully hes ok..hope this helped
-----
Jonny Blaze
1.0 Nosy Be Panther
s136.photobucket.com/albums/q173/jonnyblaze_04/?sc=3

whelp, funny my vet told me the same thing best looking cham hes ever had brought in. No signs of anything wrong. He said the gaping is most likely my cham regulating his temps, said it probably has nothing to do with my temps being wrong as from what i have seen here and what he said, my temps are good. Its just a way they regulate there body temps and i shouldn't be worried. He of course said should any other things arise bring him on back and i will but other wise Fred has a clean bill of health.

I like it when they swivel around trying to hide behind a branch much thinner than they are. A twig with rotating eyes. The little pygmy leaf chams almost "hang" on leaf tips at night and let themselves drop to the ground if disturbed.