Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I had never heard of these before. Picked a pair up from the Richmond, VA show today. I assume they are like the sunglow corns in that they are a particularly pleasant looking amel or are they genetically different from the normal amels?


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www.elmgrovereptiles.com

I've never heard the term "sunglow" used for them, but your animal looks like a "pure" strain to me!.....most likely simply a nice selectively bred amel. It does have a different hue than most amel "blacks".....usually they are more red.....that's a very nice looking, unique coloration!.....................Doug
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Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!

albino Yellow Ratsnake in the mix???, but who knows.
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Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!

supposedly both parents came from Ohio. One was WC (no yellow rat here), not sire about the other.
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www.elmgrovereptiles.com

Wow!.....that's cool to know!.......was the W/C parent an albino, or an unknown het?................................Doug
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Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!

unknown het. He had 2 CB albino's that wouldn't breed so he bred one of them to a wc (can't remember which sex wouldnt breed)and this is what he got! Pretty cool huh? This is his second year producing these. But like you said I think they are just cool looking regular amels.
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www.elmgrovereptiles.com

...except beautiful! Very nice Rats!!
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Diego

Diego & Tiffany's Zoo:
SNAKES
2.4.0 Corn Snakes (Different morphs)
1.1.0 Hypo Everglades Rat Snakes
2.1.0 Baird's Rat Snakes
1.2.0 Trans-Pecos Rat Snakes
1.1.0 Trinket Rat Snake
1.0.0 Japanese Rat Snake
1.1.0 Salt and Pepper Bull Snakes
0.1.0 Amel Pacific Gopher Snake
1.0.0 Het Amel San Diego Gopher Snake
0.1.0 San Diego Gopher Snake
3.2.0 Sonoran Gopher Snakes
0.1.0 Amel Sonoran Gopher Snakes
1.1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake
2.1.0 Gray Banded Kingsnakes (2.1 River Road)
1.0.0 Hypermelanistic California Kingsnake
0.1.0 Albino High White California Kingsnake
0.2.0 California Kingsnakes
1.1.0 Thayeri Kingsnake
0.1.0 Florida Kingsnake
1.1.0 Boa Constrictors
0.1.0 Dumeril's Boa
2.0.0 Rosy Boas (Mexican & Mid Baja)
1.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.1.0 Indonesian Dwarf Pacific Boa
1.1.0 Ball Pythons
1.0.0 Woma Python
1.1.0 Cape York Spotted Pythons
1.1.0 Macklot's Pythons
1.1.0 Western Hognoses
1.1.0 Red Sided Garter Snakes

LIZARDS
1.0.0 Frilled Dragon
3.1.0 Bearded Dragons (2 Normal, 1 RedXGold, 1 Citrus)
0.1.0 Eastern Collared Lizard
1.0.0 African Fat-Tail Gecko
0.1.0 Merauke Blue Tongue Skink
1.4.0 Leopard Geckos
1.0.1 Yellow Niger Uromastyx
1.1.0 Chuckwalla
0.1.0 Banded Gecko

FROGS
2.2.0 Southern Bell Frogs
1.0.1 Green Tree Frogs
1.0.0 Bubbling Kassina
1.1.1 White's Tree Frogs
0.0.2 Gold Frogs

Man!!! those are INSANE odds that one was a W/C het carrier!..
that is just too damn cool!!!LOL
Doug
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Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!

My Understanding of the sunglow,is that it is a "new" Amel morph that is not compatible with the old.
I have no printed or firsthand evidence of this,and it seems that there are some of the "old" morphs being labeled as sunglow.
Hopefully,my pairs will be old enough to shed some light on this next year.
I have an "old" morph female in shed now,hoping the "questionabble sunglow" male I haave will do the job.
Not that this will prove mucch as I doubt he is really a "new" sunglow.
as an aside,if I did not already have a male,that one of yours would have come home with me

Bear

I almost forgot to mention,the hets have an "off" look to them too,they look more brindled to me than the young brindles I have.
I serioulsy doubt anyone would consider them wild-types

Bearr

...arent considered too important here are they?

Bear

He did say that it was a new type of amel when I was asking about them. I just assumed it was a cooler looking form of the "normal" amel much like sunglow corn snakes. I will have to breed my male with a "normal" amel female to see what happens. If I get all norm looking babies then I'll assume I have the new sunglow morph!! But looking at them they do not look like the "normal" amels I have seen.

He also had a yearling (2005) male for sale that looked much like these only a little less bright but definitly different from the amels I am used to seeing.

Can you tell I am a corn snake guy by using "amel" instead on "albino"....LOL.
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www.elmgrovereptiles.com

All very interesting for sure!..........like you said, you will prove it later on for sure, and until then absorb all you can around the hobby in the mean time.....great stuff, might be just like the new "amel" emoryi!!, cool things seem to be happening back to back!....know what I mean!?
Doug
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Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!

I agree. I am going to purchase a few more if I can find them to cross with whitesides as well. I like them the more I look at them!!
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www.elmgrovereptiles.com

He says it is a "new" form of amelanism that is incompatible with the old correct? And this is a brand new form that spawned from a wc? Well if he bred the wc to an albino he already had (which then wouldn't have been the "new" albino" So how do you get albinos from an incompatible pairing? And what are the odds? I have nothing against the breeder nor do I know who it is, but there are just too many loose ends in this story....


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.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
.1 MO Locale Black Ratsnake "Molly" (Flogging Molly)

"Have you ever tried simply turning off the T.V., sitting down with your kids... and hitting them?"

He already had two sunglows. He tried to breed them and one (I believe the female) was not interested so he decided to breed the other to a WC so he could at least make some hets. To his surprise sunglow babies hatched. According to what he told me (if I have the story strait) the sunglow originated in Ohio. This is where he lives and where the WC black rat was caught. I do not believe that he was the first to work with this line but he has connections with the one who did.

Only breeding trials with "normal" amels will prove or disprove compatibility. The price paid for them was no higher than the prices that are paid for normal amels so there is no great monetary incentive to marketing the new sunglow morph as something it isn't.
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www.elmgrovereptiles.com

my Basil. That is almost exactly what he looked like as a baby.

He's supposedly pure black rat, but he wasn't labeled "sunglow" when I bought him... 4 years ago? I've wondered what it is about him that's so different.

I can see how mine will look like yours when they mature. I am interested in the history of this morph especially seeing the yellow under the neck that looks almost "cornish" but that could be because of the amel influence on what would normally be black colored.
Thanks for the pic. I havn't seen an adult yet.
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www.elmgrovereptiles.com

Hey!,Those are some nice amel. black rats you have there but,to me they just look like normal clean patterned black rats.I bred these guys back in the early 90's & I can tell ya ,they are wonderful to work with!Here are a couple of pics of pics l.o.l.Thebig one is the male breeder,and the other pic is of one of my clutches from my pr.If you look closely at the baby pic,right at my hand you'll see the one I kept,he was brighter than the rest. Jeff

Thanks Jeff!! As far as them being a new amel morph only time will tell when I can breed the male to a "normal" amel female. If all the hatchlings are normal colored then we'll know they are incompatible. If the hatchlings are all amel then we will know that it is just the same type of amel. However, I was told by the guy who bred these that they were incompatible with the "normal" amels. I do really like the looks of these either way and the activity levels of the BR's are more fun than corns.
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www.elmgrovereptiles.com

See pics of your babies makes me wish I still had mine.I have more pics of mine,including a pic of the one I held back somewhere around here.I'll share them when I can find them. l.o.l. Take care!, Jeff

It looks to me to be what has been coined a "Brick Red" albino. They aren't quite the same as regular amels. I think someone used really light colored regular black rats to draaw out that more intense red coloration.