Reptile & Amphibian Forums

LOL ... well, I recently purchased an adult cal king female, a few months ago anyway. Upon arrival she ate great and recently she has been avoiding ALL food and wont take anything. I just sassumed this was due to her ovulating (she shed about a week ago) and because there is a male in the tub above her.

Cleaning cages this morning and she right in the middle of laying eggs! Theres about 8 already and shes still pumping them out

I have no incubator, no nest box, nothing ... I have NOT put her with a male. SOooo ... I need something I can make ASAP.

I do have a on/off type thermostate and 11" x 12" piece of flexwatt.

Can I rig something up??

Any advice GREATLY appreciated!!

Another question, I have got several VERY important appointments this afternooon I cant miss, so I wont be able to rig anything up until around 3 or 4 PM today (about 5 hours or so). Will they be ok for that long? As mentioned shes still in the middle of laying so it might be awhile before shes done anyway.

She layed them just right on the floor of her tub ...

Im not sure if it would work or not and Im open to all suggestions but I thought I might just get a shoebox container and some vermiculite mix the verm and water. Place the eggs in that container, then put the shoebox in a larger container with water and place the flexwatt UNDER the container with the water so when it kicks on and off it will heat the water, which will in turn heat the shoebox ???

The only thing would be trying to zero in the temp ...

I could order a havobater but it wont be here for a few days??

Any suggestions would be great!

I'd order a hovabator.

You probably don't need to add heat to them until it arrives.
Some people incubate them w/o any extra heat at all - it just takes a little longer.

It probably would be safer to go without heat until incubator arrives than to jerry rig something and make a booboo that cooks them.
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3.6 L. getula californiae
1.1 L. getula nigrita
1.0 Boa constrictor constrictor (suriname, fostering/rescue)
2.3 Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata

among others with great success, as in "Applegates" Milksnake booklet with aquarium heater. yours would i.e. be the exact same thing, just make sure(like you said) you "dial" it in, and keep good tabs on it, especially in the beginning..............Doug

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Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!

I just mix water and perlite and put the eggs in a warm spot in the house. Always worked fine for me. I have seen more problems with hatching eggs in a incubator than not. If the temps are cool the in your area the eggs will still hatch . It will just take a few days longer.

anything between 70-85f is fine

get some vermiculite and a sterilite tub.
Tub #1952 is what I recommend.

vermiculite should be mixed with water about 1:1 by weight, but don't just put all the water in - you want it to feel moist but be really wet. Put it in a sterilite tub.

do not turn the eggs over when transfering them to tub, and do not separate them if stuck together.

Put saran wrap over the tub - don't use the lid! Water will condense on the lid and drip on the eggs killing them.

Use a large rubberband (I use the kind intended to fit on a persons head) to hold saran wrap on tub.

Order an incubator - not completely necessary, but it helps.
The eggs will be fine until it arrives as long as they don't get *too* cold - but they should be fine at room temp.

Make sure incubator has a thermostat that works in the low range kingsnake eggs need (about 80F) - avoid turbofan models.

This is the one I use:

http://www.beanfarm.com/store/agora.cgi?product=Incubation&user4=Incubators

Two of the sterilite tubs I mentioned fit perfectly.

When incubator arrives, put it together, put the plastic liner in, fill all the valleys with water, put screen in, and adjust temp to about 80F. Once temp is adjusted, put the sterilite tub in it.

About 60 days from now (give or take) you should see noses poking out
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3.6 L. getula californiae
1.1 L. getula nigrita
1.0 Boa constrictor constrictor (suriname, fostering/rescue)
2.3 Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata

She layed them just right on the floor of her tub ...

Hopefully you will get in tame so that the eggs don't dry and get stuck to the tub. A little moisture spayed in the area of the eggs will help keep the moisture up until you return.

Also I would remove the eggs she has already layed. I do this as a rule because i have had a lot of snakes eat their own eggs.

Really?

I have never seen that. I have heard of it before though. How often has this happened to you?

It happenes quite frequently but I also have a lot of breeders. I had about 20 clucthes eaten last year (highest ever). It seems if I don't remove the eggs immediatly they get eaten.

In the past I just chalked it up as reasorbing the eggs. But last year i kept a good eye out and saw the snakes were laying them came back to an empty cage with a fat snake. I think this goes on a lot more than people realize.

Appreciate the input guys, I removed the eggs that she has laid so far and put them up in moist verm in a shoebox. She definately didnt like me taking them out of there I can tell you that! lol ...

I have 11 so far and she still looks to have 3 or 4 more in her

I bet it does happen more often than people think!LOL, especially with the "getulus". Being the "ophiophages" that they are. If you think about it,...she lays the eggs, they "wreak" of internal snake scent(many have never smelled before) despite it being their own eggs.....add to that, she's starving from having not eaten for months!..........it only makes sense!, then when the breeder sees the eggs(meal) disappear slowly from digestion, it would look as though they were being reabsorbed!LOL. I also would bet this would/could happen more if she sees them more in the open, than if they were well burried in moist substrate, know what I mean?
In any case it was a good post, and I'll bet any breeder that reads these posts will try to be MUCH more aware of things!!LOL
Doug
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Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!

How long do your females refuse food before laying? The only guy I ever spoke to about this had a few females who were regular culprits. They were also the snakes that refused to feed almost entirely while gravid.

Most of my females will continue to eat small meals up until their prelay shed. I don't think that I have ever had this happen, but maybe an egg or two could have slipped by me unnoticed. I will definitely be looking for it from now on.

The whole thing just seems counter intuitive to me. If so many snakes were eating their own clutches in the wild it would be a big problem. As keepers we must be doing something wrong.

lay their eggs, and immediately take off in search of a meal. In a small container, they are forced to be in direct vicinity of their eggs, sometimes no doubt smelling very inviting to the starving female.
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Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!

While that's true - laying is a dangerous time and I'm not sure I would want to risk the health of the female and remove eggs before she is done just to avoid the remote though possible chance of her eating them.

I might change my mind if it happened to me, but I might change my mind with just that particular female, and if she wasn't something absolutely outstanding, I might decide to not breed her again - just in case eating her own eggs after laying is a genetic tendency.
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3.6 L. getula californiae
1.1 L. getula nigrita
1.0 Boa constrictor constrictor (suriname, fostering/rescue)
2.3 Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata

n/p
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Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!

While that's true - laying is a dangerous time and I'm not sure I would want to risk the health of the female and remove eggs before she is done just to avoid the remote though possible chance of her eating them.

I might change my mind if it happened to me, but I might change my mind with just that particular female, and if she wasn't something absolutely outstanding, I might decide to not breed her again - just in case eating her own eggs after laying is a genetic tendency.

I don't think its genetic tendency. Like I said in my previous post.. I kept a close eye on the snakes after laying last season and caught them in the processes. In the past I would be gone for a day and see that the snake did not lay and then the eggs absorbed.

Last year the amount of eggs being eaten by several diifferent snakes had layed before and not eaten them in previous seasond. While I don't think this is genetic (like domestic white mice colonies) but might be captive related. I don't know what happens in the wild but I can't imagine snakes eating their cluches in the wild as they would go extinct.

last year I got so pissed when sevral double het snakes ate their eggs I palpitated the eggs from their stomachs. Most of the eggs were torn up by the teeth. The ones that were intact did not survive. I tried this 5 or 6 times last year and not one egg survived. This was done (palpitated) right after they the eggs were eaten... I know this because i would check and see the snakes laying and go do something else, come back and see the eggs are gone (yes it happens that fast). I have also had eggs that were left a couple days with the enakes and found they were eaten a day or two after laying as well. So its not always right after laying.

Just keep an eye out for the eggs and grab the ones that are out. If you have to leave and times passes that may be the last time you see the egss.

all these eggs being eaten were Florida kings. I have other snakes and have not witnessed cannibalism.

Friggin' eating machines!LOL,,,,although wouldn't put it past a very hungry "Getulus" either!
I can picture me getting "pissed", and doing the same palpation thing!LOL.......certainly wasn't funny at the time, was it?
Doug
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Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!

I ordered a havobator ...

... will get them set up in verm in a few hours ..thanks again!!