Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I would like to share with you all some unfortunate news. My male Pseustes poecilonotus that I have on exhibit at the museum has not been showing great signs of dealing with public display. Which I find interesting after I was curious if there were any other facilities exhibiting one.

I am offering a lot of information; feel free to skim if you like.

First, I can share some background before I get into the issue. This individual arrived weighing 176g and took in approximately 160g of food without any issues over the course of one month. Seemed rather impressive actually. The animal was placed on exhibit March 10th in a 4ft X 2ft X 2 ft Animal Plastics enclosure with a floor heat high warm spot in the high 80's and a cool end set in the mid-high 70's heated with a blue light bulb and a 3.3 degree night drop. (Sorry I forget the exact temps the thermostat is set to on the high and low ends).

However, yesterday at around 2 pm, while the museum was still open, I gave the snake a 54-59g rat. It took the usual work of getting him to strike many bluffs before accepting the meal, but he took it down without any problems. Then about 2 hours later, he regurgitated the meal. I thought perhaps this was an issue of the meal being a bit large, combined with the stress of people viewing the animal. Although, it did seem odd he kept it in for 2 hours before the regurgitation.

So, feeling like it was perhaps an issue of the meal being a bit large, against better judgment, I decided to feed him two 5-10 g mice today at 10:45 am. He took one relatively easily, and refused the second. But I did put forth a full amount of effort trying to get him to take two. There were even many occasions I was tossing him back in the cage with a snake hook. He held down the small meal under all these conditions and seemed to be fine roaming the cage. Then I receive a call 2 hours later that he regurgitated the small mouse.

I can certainly think of many things that are perfect reasons for the regurgitations to have occurred, but they do not seem to be adding up.

I can also bring up that the female regurgitated a moderately large meal four days after eating when she was moved.

I would certainly hate to pull this animal from exhibit, but I really do not want to risk losing this animal. I think I am going to wait about 10 days to offer another small meal, and I am going to have the cage covered the rest of the day.

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to share a detailed experience, and if people would like to share their own thoughts, they are certainly welcomed.

Thank you

Do you have a decent hide for your display to keep stress level to a minimum?

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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

Sorry I did not mention that. I actually have a hide that gives the snake 100% security on the floor. I have seen this hide go to use maybe once by this animal. The black-tailed cribo uses the same style hide the majority of the day, as do many other snakes on exhibit. I will start working out hides with a small amount of visibility after the animals have quite a while of settling in.

The Pseustes tends to stay out in the open on the floor during the day, but after a meal goes to the bamboo perches. I would guess my best bet for kicking this problem without completely covering the cage would be to offer more secure areas to hide while off the ground.

Thank you for bringing this up, I may not have made that connection had you not directly asked.

I does indeed sound like a stress issue, perhaps feeding him too much too soon after a big move. First, I would wait a minimum of 2 weeks (3 would be better) before feeding again. Regurges are extremely detrimental to the gut fauna and it takes some time for that to replenish after one regurge, not to mention two in one day. Stomach acids that come back up will also irritate the animal's digestive tract. Make sure he is staying very hydrated during this waiting period as well. When you try and feed again, go with what you think is the smallest meal the animal would possibly accept - maybe a very small mouse or hopper. Then don't feed again until he's had a good defecation and is completely cleared out. Then repeat with the small food item. Wait again for a good defecation before feeding again and repeat this process for at least 4-5 good meals/defecations before moving him back onto his regular-sized meals.

Next is to address the stress issues. It could be as minimal as the overall change in environment and they just need some time to settle in. The first very quick regurge suggests a flight response though - basically it freaked out over something and had to empty it's stomach contents to prepare for an escape or try and ward off the threat. The second regurge could very well be either the same response or more likely, a direct result of the first regurge (irritated stomach and stress from the first one). If it were me with those snakes, I would leave them in the exhibit but maybe add some more/different hides for them to utilize. Like I mentioned above, give them a good 2-3 weeks to settle into their new digs and let their insides repair and then move onto the recovery feeding regimen. If they regurge again after the waiting period, it is imperative to repeat the whole waiting period, but give it an extra week. I would also move them back into their original enclosures if it happens again.

In my 30 years keeping herps, I have more experience than I like to admit with regurges and I know the above regimen will work if the animal is in decent health to begin with. I have had animals that I swore were going down and got so terribly thin after multiple regurges, but have never lost one to chronic regurge. Best of luck and above all, be patient.

Billy

Not that it matters, but I'll just mention the snakes are not housed together. I decided to only have the male on exhibit after the female regurged. I can't claim 30 years experience, but I have very few regurges, and none after 4 days of holding in a meal.

Your response was pretty much my plan, but my original thinking was that 10 days would be sufficient. Perhaps I will add another 5-10 days.

Like I said, it was against better judgement that I fed a small meal the following day. But I was hoping the small 5-10g mouse would be held down, and my mind would have been at rest. Instead, I had to kick myself for going against my "knowing better."

I will also mention this animal does have successful feedings under his belt while on exhibit, but it may just have very well been that there were less people visiting the museum, as this is spring break for many schools.

I am feeling confident that if I am patient, like you said, and offer secure hiding off the ground, the animal will do fine on exhibit.

I think he'll do just fine for you with the plan in place. And yes, better to be patient and let his gut rest and repair for a few more days than to feed him again too early...no matter how much he's begging to be fed!

Best of luck and post some pics of your display enclosures if you get a chance. Would love to see the rest of the SoLA collection!

Billy

I will get around to posting photos soon. Right now I am trying to find the cords to hook the camera up to the computer. I actually took some photos of the Pseustes eating the rat he ended up regurging. The funny thing is I can get right in his face with a camera when he is eating and he has no problem with it and takes it down just fine.

Part of me actually wonders if it is the disturbance by "other people" he is unfamiliar with that is giving him the flight reaction.

The SoLA exhibit is quite small now and very simple. Only 5 species currently. Mostly because of my budget on the cages. But there is not a chance I'm going with any other cages besides Animal Plastics. They are working so great and the service from those folks is amazing. My Herpstat Pro thermostats (another great product I will suggest every herp keeper should have) rarely show most of my outputs running more than 0% to 10% to keep their target temps. The biggest issue is too much humidity. But I could easily change that.

Given teh meal was brought back up after four days, it sounds as though the snake experienced emisis, rather then regurgitation. I am curious as to whether the matter produced by the snake was digested, in whole or part, or was the entire prey item brought forth? Also, did you have the contents examined and conduct a fecal study on this specimen?

Sorry to hear of this,

Jeff
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Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947

Sorry I didn't clarify that. When the female regured after 4 days, it was nearly digested entirely. I originally thought it had passed out the other end, but when I lifted it, I could feel by the way it was held together, and the smell, that it had regurgitated. It was certainly not a surprise to me, as it was a larger meal, and the snake was under a moderate level of stress. I unfortunately had to move this animal that day.

The female this occurred with is actually doing great right now, and has not regurged since. She is off exhibit.

I am just realizing I am going to have to put some good effort in keeping the stress level of the male on exhibit fairly low. A big part of this is that I did not have a lot of time to acclimate some animals before the opening of this exhibit. I ran into a few bumps in the road I am just going to have to deal with.

But I have complete confidence that this snake will work out just fine.

I was more bringing this up as ventalation for a bit of frustration I had when this happened, and to keep people updated on some animals we don't have a lot of captive experience with (especially in an exhibit setting).

TO DEAL WITH THE STRESS FACTOR I SEEN A SPECIALLY MADE GLASS THAT YOU COULD USE FOR THE INCLOSURE ON THE SIDE THAT CUSTOMERS VEIW THE SNAKE FROM IT ALLOWS THEM TO SEE IN BUT THE SNAKE CANT SEE OUT NOT SURE OF THE NAME NOR THE COMPANY THAT MAKES IT BUT IT WOULD REALLY REDUCE THE STRESS FROM PEOPLE LOOKING AT IN ALL DAY. I WOULD THINK THAT A TWO WAY MIRROR WOULD ALSO WORK IN THE SAME WAY.

I have considered using different glass, but there are a few reasons that is not an option right now. Honestly, I feel very confident this animal will thrive on exhibit once there is more security available off the floor.

But I do thank you for the suggestion, and I will be keeping people updated as time goes by. Right now, the snake is in a deep blue state of shed and spends all his time hiding where he is is 100% not visible to the public unless I move the hide for cleaning or misting. His stress level actually seems fairly low now, as he sits and drinks off the misting bottle when I move his hide.

Thanks again,

Gavin

What kind of snake is a Pseustes poecilonotus? Do you have any photos.

Pseustes poecilonotus is a moderately large arboreal colubrid.

I do not have any photos currently, but if you look a few threads down, another member posted photos of his.

They look kind of like a Spilotes, with the coloration of an eyelash viper (especially when young).

Right now, you do not see many in U.S. collections, but I have a strong feeling this will change over the next few years. This is why I feel it is important I share my "ups and downs."

http://www.uga.edu/srelherp/jd/jdweb/Herps/species/Forsnake/Psepoi.htm

http://www.snakesofcolombia.com/base/selectcategory.do?store=1&catalog=4&department=56&category=243

http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?stat=BROWSE&query_src=photos_fauna_sci-Reptile&where-lifeform=Reptile&where-taxon=Pseustes+poecilonotus

http://www.frognet.org/gallery/Panama2004/Tree_snake_1

http://images.google.com/images?q=pseustes%20poecilonotus&hl=en&sa=N&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&um=1&tab=wi

>>What kind of snake is a Pseustes poecilonotus? Do you have any photos.

Cool...thanks guys.