Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just got back to work after going home to put a new female away that was waiting on my doorstep. Checked on the female. She was in the middle of laying her 5th egg! I got them put in the incubator. I think she has 2 more left inside her. She laid 7 two years ago. So that's what I'm expecting. They are HUGE eggs. Another weird thing, she laid 2 years ago to the day last time. Weird the way they do their cycles.

The eggs were still very soft. I pulled them apart and laid them all flat in the egg box. Awesome feeling, but now I have a question, one of the eggs was tilted on its side. I wanted it to be able to lay flat the most, because 2 years ago, 1 egg was like that and it died 2/3 of the way through incubation. I didn't even have to candle these ones by the way. I could see the veins right through the shell. My question is, I could see the placenta inside the one that was originally sideways. Know how they say not to turn them at all? Well, I laid it down exactly how it would have been if she had laid it flat. Didn't rotate it at all. Is that bad that the placenta is on top and the baby will develop upside down? I doubt it in reality but now I'm on to the second stage of paranoia.....them all hatching healthy. What do you think?

I'll post the pics as soon as I can. Didn't have time yet, plus she's not even done. Oh, and I also checked on my other girls while I was there. Big fat ovulation in one. Things are finally taking off. Almost faster than I can keep up with now.

Don't worry about it. They can be moved during the first few days with no problem. Think about how mom "gathers" them up after laying. The all get rolled around until they finally dry a bit and stick together. I've read stories where Ralph Davis is holding eggs under running water, and Dave Barker mentions times where eggs were dropped on the floor and all hatched fine. I even remember one guy purposfully rotating a batch of retic eggs every few days throughout incubation and not really getting a significantly lower hatch rate.

I think the fragility of eggs is a bit of a myth. They're tougher than people think.

From you post, I can see your biggest problem will be having the restraint to just leave them alone. My first clutch had a few deaths and a few "weirdos" due to the fact that I was in there mucking around in the incubator ever day....Now repeat after me.....

"I will not mess with my eggs....I wil not mess with my eggs....."

Love the advice, when I finally get my eggs I will keep that in mind.. Thankfully I spent a little bit more money and got a incubater with a window so I can look in a million times without disturbing anything...

I did the whole "can't leave them alone thing" last time. This time, I'm just glad they're finally out of her. Thanks man. Appreciate the encouraging info. So you think at this point I could just flip that egg over so the yolk is on the bottom? Just to make me feel better. When I open the box up to put the ones she hasn't laid yet in. Just this once, I promise.

I don't think it matters if its up or down, and I don't think turning it over right now would have any effect. Of course, if you turn it over based on my advice, and then it dies, you'll be coming after me with the large probe........

JP,

Now that's a visual!
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Kyle
www.royalvariations.com

"be safe, be happy and dont let anyone make you afraid" David Coverdale

>>Don't worry about it. They can be moved during the first few days with no problem. Think about how mom "gathers" them up after laying. The all get rolled around until they finally dry a bit and stick together. I've read stories where Ralph Davis is holding eggs under running water, and Dave Barker mentions times where eggs were dropped on the floor and all hatched fine. I even remember one guy purposfully rotating a batch of retic eggs every few days throughout incubation and not really getting a significantly lower hatch rate.
>>
>>I think the fragility of eggs is a bit of a myth. They're tougher than people think.
>>

Rolling eggs is not a problem early on.

The other year I hatched a clutch of black rat snake eggs (laid in the wild) after they took a 6 foot spill when a front-end loader picking up a load of mulch from a large pile unearthed the nest. All of the eggs actually had the outer shell split in places from the fall but the inner soft membrane held up..except on one. That particular egg leaked fluid off and on throughout the incubation process but still wound up hatching with the others (bit of a runt though). I kinda figured they were all a bit brain addled after they hatched as they didn't behave like normal black rats.. they are more like little puppy dogs.. nicer than corn snake even lol. Great appetites too. The slower growing half of the clutch are now happily munching on hoppers and the faster growing individuals are on small adult mice....all are between 3.0-3.5 feet.
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PHWyvern

You should be able to safely move the egg around during the first 24 hours. I have done this up to that point with no ill-effects. That being said, I would not make it a habit or disturb the eggs once they are in the egg box. That is, I would not rotate them.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

Should I even worry about it? Just seems odd with the placenta sitting dead center at the top of the egg. I just see this baby developing upside down with a hell of of a headrush at the end of 60 days

Or so, many think. In my discussions with others, it seems this *can* result in the death of a snake (rotating the egg after a set number of days). However, I have not experimented to see if this is (always) the case. But it does make sense. Think about why the eggs would stick together shortly after laying. Could this be natures way of keeping them in the same position?
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

does it matter where the placenta is in relation to egg position. Turns out she only had 5 to give me. When I got home, there were no more and she was empty. The 5 she laid are HUGE though. Way bigger than they were 2 years ago. She's not nearly as thin as I expected her to be either. I really didn't want to bother her if she wasn't done. But I did want to get them as quick as possible so I could lay them in the egg box individually. And just into the incubator right away too. Thanks for the comments guys.

First of all I don't think it is wise to pull eggs until she is COMPLETELY done laying, your just disturbing her in my eyes..

Secondly I have never seen any bad results that I can link back to the position of the egg (that early in development that is).. The egg that went bad 2 yrs ago likely had something else wrong with it , it's unlikely the position of it had anything to do with it going bad. Also the first day the eggs are laid the eggs can be moved around without any issues.. I wouldn't change the positions of them drastically anyway, nor would I mess with them after day one but the first day shouldn't matter , I've done it and never had a problem..

Finally I think the eggs are stronger than you might think, if it's a good egg and set up properly it will hatch without much trouble, messing with things to much is where things start to go wrong!

Anthony McCain-McCain's Reptiles...

I think JP is right on! Python eggs are pretty friggin' resilient! They don't establish polarities for about a day or so! So if you were grabbin' em' right out the chute, you should be fine! NOW, LEAVE EM' ALONE!!!!!!!!

I have moved around many of eggs and never had a problem with it when it comes to snakes, but i would caution rotating turtle and gecko eggs i have seen ill effects with them, but snakes are tough... I also do not think the snake will have a problem if the placenta is at the top of the egg, as the snake develops it will move and adjust, but as far as developing upside down i think it should be fine.

Also just because a female laid 7 eggs 2 years in a row dosent always mean they will continue to lay 7, normally females start smaller when it is there first clutch then the clucth size will grow from year to year and then Ibeleive it starts to decrease, after i notice smaller clutches with our females they get the following year off, i have also heard the same thing from many other breeders. Obviously if they are not up to size they should not go but i do believe they need a brake from time to time, think about breeding a dog, if you breed her on every heat it drains her and her health will dwindle, Balls only go into "heat" once a year but it is a good time out of the year that they are off feed or breeding or ovulating then carrying the eggs, then they would be incubating them in the wild, they actually only have a few months off ...lol...
Just some thoughts
Congrats on your clutch and keep us updated when they hatch. What were they the result off?
Kim 'N.A.R.C