Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am currently using cypress mulch for substrate. Lately, though, I have been having problems with mold. I keep their enclosures very humid, perhaps this is the problem? I know a few of you use some sort of moss. I've never worked with moss before, does it mold up easily?

I am considering just using newsprint and adding a humid box. What kind of moss do you suggest, and where the heck do I get it?

Any other ideas?

Thanks!

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Hey Aubrey, I go with the paper and moss hide box method. I have 48 BRB's and I do need to keep my cages simple and easy to clean.

I place two layers of newspaper on the floor and one more layer of dimpled craft paper on top of that. The dimpled craft paper looks better while the newspaper is free and adds absorption. I used to use just newspaper but got tired of the ink transfer onto the snakes when they got the newspaper wet. And we all know how much BRB's seem to urinate.

For the moss box I use either a sterilite 1754 sweater box or the smaller shoe box for smaller BRB's. I put an inch of peat moss on the bottom, very damp. Kinda works like a dirt floor. Then I add another inch of green moss also damp. I get it by the bale from outsidepride.com It will also mold if you get it too moist but now with practice, I rarely see mold.

www.uline.com/Browse_Listing_1961.asp?desc=Indented Kraft Paper
outsidepride.com/store/product.php?productid=16329&cat=264&page=1
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
19.29 BRB
13.18 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Meant to add these pics showing my BRB setups.....

Please note, the hides in these pics all had paper liners, now are all moss boxes.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
19.29 BRB
13.18 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Thanks, Dave, for the great info and links. What do you do with your moss (now that you're an expert ) to keep it from molding?
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Seems to be the moisture level, too damp and it will mold. I had to play with it and now I just make them up by look/feel.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
19.29 BRB
13.18 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Ok, I remember having to play with water ratios in vermiculite for egg incubation until I finally got it right. Sounds like the moss will be a similar procedure. Thanks!
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I know Im a noob at having my first BRB but I did have an issue with mold at one point. My reason, I lacked a proper cover for my cage so I was having to spray / mist on moss that I would keep in the tank. I found that since I had a plexi glass cover made and can vary my humidity level by how much I leave a gap I no longer need to spray / mist. Which means I no longer need to use moss to hold in humdidty. With just a small water bowl over the warm side( since i use under tank heaters ) it seems to keep the humidity Lv exactly where it should be. ( 75% - 85% ) Just recently as I had found out in a recent post of my own, hes enjoying a soak now and again in this home made "hot tub" hehe. Also I use the reptile mat. Its only 9.99 at pet-co and actually has enzymes ect in it that upsorbs any urine that the reptiles release. By hand removing anything larger, I can pretty much only replace his substrate with a new mat roughly once a month.

See below pic of his tank >

Here's a money saving suggestion...

Buy 2 mats. When the first one is soiled, replace it with the second one. Wash the 1st one and air it out. You have about 2 weeks between using each sheet, enough time for you to clean the other properly.

I have had my same two mats for 8 months and there are no stains, they look good as new.

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-Iman

1.1 BRBs (Ying and Yang)
1.1 JCPs (Striker and Sheila)
0.0.2 BPs (Spot and Speck)
5.5 Fish (Insert your favorite names here)
1.0 Miniature Daschund (Rue)

Loving to Learn
Learning to Help
Helping to Love

Stimulate debates, stifle arguments.
Please be nice always.

The thing is he doesnt really use the bathroom all that much. So Im thinking if he is, hes most likely doing it in the larger bowl. Which I change out weekely. I mean, if I see the mat getting gross or is it smells of course Ill change it. But since the last clean sweep, I was able to go about a month before changing the reptile mat. I mean its only 9.99 and between spending 4 bucks on food which is 3 fuzzy rats ( once a week ) as far as money going into him. 25 bucks a month isnt that bad. ( Mat / food ) Im comparing that to my cats which require litter / food ... toy* blah... and way more attenchin. haha

Sorry 15 bucks a month... not 25.

well it's all relative. As I mentioned in my other post in this thread there are substrates which never require changing, just the removal of large fecal deposits.

Sean.

get yourself some spaghnum moss (can be found in lowes near the orchids) or orchid moss. Soak it with water, and ring it out a bit.. I have never had it mold - I use it with all my hide boxes and most of my frog tanks (many of the frog tanks stay 90% and higher all the time).

Just mist it a couple of times a week to keep it damp..
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photos.xtremecombatsports.com

Thanks, Tim. I will check out the sphagnum before I order anything online. Hopefully I can get this to work. Thanks again!!
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I have to agree with both Dave and Tim. I will probably goto a setup more similar to Daves in the future instead of the moss substrate I use now.

As far as mold goes, Tim's method should work great. I do something different but I think reaches basically the same point. Either way you need to figure out a way to keep the moss moist but not wet enough for mold to set in. generally it's been my experience that mold almost never sets into sphagnum moss unless the moss is in standing water.

Since I'm dealing with 12 square feet of floor space between my two BRB's enclosures I felt pre soaking to be to much trouble so after much experimentation with how much moisture will cause "green moss"/sphagnum moss to mold I found a safe point where I mist the moisture with a pressurized spraying over the entire cage until I begin to see it start collecting on the floor of the tank. At that point I stop and if there are any particulary dry layers in the middle I turn them over and spot spray them(normally there aren't, I just check the extra thick spots of moss). This seems to be a safe point as I spray to that point every week and have not had mold in ages. I still do lift the moss in the moistest spots once a week to check for it though.

As far as aquiring the moss in addition to the links posted you can also check your local plant nursery to see if their price is cheeper. I tend to go this route at the moment because my local nursery(literally arround the corner) has several sizes of bailed 'green' sphagnum moss for cheep so I can get exactly how much I need when I need it. Once I move though it may be more convenient to mail order it.

Another moss substrate option that a breeder I know uses for his BRB's is living moss. The stuff is primarily, I believe, sold for frog enclosures. It comes as these golf ball to fist sized chunks of living moss. You use it by laying a layer or bedding of this woody/fiberous substrate that is food for the living moss all across the bottom of the enclosure. Then you put a layer of the living moss on top of it and spray the moss down with water.

The living mosses benefits is that it is one of the prettiest substrates I've ever seen, it keeps the humidity up in the enclosure, and it never needs to be replaced. It's negatives are that it is expensive up front, and it does not let the boas burrow into it. However the breeder I knows boas seem to be very happy with it plus a hide.

Anyways enough rambling from me. Hope some of the info was helpfull.

Sean.

Thanks Sean. I think I'll be making a trip to my local nursery to look for that sphagnum moss. Thanks for the detailed info!
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Hey Sean, I was wondering if you could elaborate some on the living mosses. What do you mean they dont have to be replaced? I would assume the fecal matter and waht not would still accumulate and substrate would have to be changed. Im interested in making a very naturalistic set-up for display.

thanks!

I'd have to check back with the Breeder I know who uses it to get specifics like the name of the moss but he carries it in his petstore.

The way it works is you have a layer of splintery/fiberous woody loose material that is the food for the moss. That is laid down in a layer I think about 1-2 inches deep. The only maintenance of the moss after that is misting.

You do need to pick up the solid waste from the Boa but it just rests on top of the moss so thats not a problem. Much easier then digging it out of the sphagnum moss like I do lol.

I believe the liquid wastes end up operating like fertilizer but I am unsure.

It is my understanding that it never has to be removed/replaced but even if you did all it would entail is lifting out the moss pads, rinsing them, replacing the moss food layer, and putting the moss pads back in.

The stuff is amazing for more naturalistic setups for amphibians or reptiles that are suited to it.

Now it is possible, given I haven't started using it myself yet, that I may be misremebering details but to the best of my knowledge thats how it works.

The breeder I know who uses it for his BRB's is Jeremy. Him and his wife Angel run a pet store in elk grove, host the Sacramento reptile show, and breed many varieties of reptiles on their own.

I'll try and double check the details and get back to you with them next time I go in for rodents.

Sean.

Thanks for the info Sean, definately keep me posted on that = )

Unfortunately when I picked up my rodents today Jeremy was out of the store so it'll prolly be next tuesday that I get the info.

Sean.

what you want to do is make a vivarium. a vivarium is basically a mini ecosystem. most dart frog owners have these, and when i started dating a frog owner i made a vivarium for my brb. (it wanted my pretty snake to live in a pretty house) i only finished my vivarium today. and it was incrediably expensive to get all of the materials i have spent hundreds of dollars on it. But it's the most fun i have ever had making something. I will post pictures soon. go to dendroboard.com and blackjungle.com they will both tell you how to make your own vivarium. my viv is made of 3 basic parts. one part is the land area, this is where the plants live. this is made of: a drainage layer on bottom made of hydroton. then a mixture of coco bark(NOT DIRT! dirt or soil will mold!, and don't use fertilizer on the plants as this will hurt your snake, the waste will fertilize the plants) and leaf litter found in the wild. (it is important to get your leaf litter from outside instead of a store because the bugs and bacteria are what break down waste and prevent mold and they are really the most important part of the vivarium.) this is covered with live java moss. (i used java moss because it can live in the water and the land so humidity is never a problem so it never molds) this also makes a little bit of a barrier between your snake and the dirt bugs. The dirt bugs arent much of a problem for the snake though because this is what they live with in the wild. just keep an eye out for snake parasites. (i didn't have to worry about snake parasites because i live so high in the mountains that we dont have any snakes, so we dont have any parasites that live off snakes in our leaf litter) the other part is my water part this consists of my handmade waterfall, my water plants and my turtle pump.(i use a turtle filter because it is specially made to filter urine and poop out of the water) and the third part is my backing which i am most proud of because it took me a long time to do. the back of the cage is cypress driftwood(because cypress doesn't mold) attached to the glass with expanding foam(the whole glass back is covered in expanding foam with driftwood peeking thru) then i covered the foam in black silicone to adhere dry coco bark(it has the consistancy of dirt) to it.this gives it a very natural look. then i wired my plants(passion vine) to the backing. when i take pictures, i will repost this to explain the process to those who dont read this one

Atheris,
..How high are you up in them mountains. Some snakes do live at higher elevations. I catch Gartersnakes and have seen Timber Rattlers above 5000 feet elevation on top of some of the balds in the Smoky Mountains.
Jeff

>>what you want to do is make a vivarium. a vivarium is basically a mini ecosystem. most dart frog owners have these, and when i started dating a frog owner i made a vivarium for my brb. (it wanted my pretty snake to live in a pretty house) i only finished my vivarium today. and it was incrediably expensive to get all of the materials i have spent hundreds of dollars on it. But it's the most fun i have ever had making something. I will post pictures soon. go to dendroboard.com and blackjungle.com they will both tell you how to make your own vivarium. my viv is made of 3 basic parts. one part is the land area, this is where the plants live. this is made of: a drainage layer on bottom made of hydroton. then a mixture of coco bark(NOT DIRT! dirt or soil will mold!, and don't use fertilizer on the plants as this will hurt your snake, the waste will fertilize the plants) and leaf litter found in the wild. (it is important to get your leaf litter from outside instead of a store because the bugs and bacteria are what break down waste and prevent mold and they are really the most important part of the vivarium.) this is covered with live java moss. (i used java moss because it can live in the water and the land so humidity is never a problem so it never molds) this also makes a little bit of a barrier between your snake and the dirt bugs. The dirt bugs arent much of a problem for the snake though because this is what they live with in the wild. just keep an eye out for snake parasites. (i didn't have to worry about snake parasites because i live so high in the mountains that we dont have any snakes, so we dont have any parasites that live off snakes in our leaf litter) the other part is my water part this consists of my handmade waterfall, my water plants and my turtle pump.(i use a turtle filter because it is specially made to filter urine and poop out of the water) and the third part is my backing which i am most proud of because it took me a long time to do. the back of the cage is cypress driftwood(because cypress doesn't mold) attached to the glass with expanding foam(the whole glass back is covered in expanding foam with driftwood peeking thru) then i covered the foam in black silicone to adhere dry coco bark(it has the consistancy of dirt) to it.this gives it a very natural look. then i wired my plants(passion vine) to the backing. when i take pictures, i will repost this to explain the process to those who dont read this one

i have lived here for ten years, and have spent a lot of my free time lookng for snakes and have only seen two garters. so i am not really worried about snake parasites.