Reptile & Amphibian Forums

ok im jsut really confused now. I always thought the definition of a fire/flame morph was the presence of very evidently white markings along the dorsal crests. Not the stripey pattern that you see, i think thats what you call a tiger. Ive asked many breeders now whether they have dark fires, fires etc and many have shown me just striped (without white) phase cresteds. Am i wrong???? is a fire/flame morph really just the striipey pattern and not the white stuff on the back??? if so then what do you call a crested with the creammy white pattern on its back???

also if anyone knows any breeders that really sells cresties with lots of white all around its body (not including the tail) THAT WOULD BE SO DAMN KOOL BECAUSE IVE BEEN LOOKING FOR A FEW MONTHS NOW AND TOOO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO AVAIL!!!> HELP HELP HELP

The photo attached is IMO what would represent the traditional color recognition of a fire vs. tiger coloration. The fire on the left is 6mo and maintains even color characteristics throughout regardless of climate or activity. In my experiences the base color of fires may fluctuate brown/gray, red/pink, orange/gray, but the cream coloration generally holds. This is not to say that the cream coloration will remain throughout adulthood, as I have many fires whom started a brilliant white that eventually turned to yellow which seems to take place in the darker morphs vs. the red or orange.

The animal on the left is typically orange in coloration, however at time of photo was gray. Although they depict the same general pattern as fires, the highlights usually are matching and a little darker than the base coloration. Giving the stripe effect.

There are definitely some stunners out there displaying a good majority of white. SFD pinstripes would be a good example of nice white highlights.

Hope this helped.

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Galen Clark
www.captivescience.com

Right : Fire
Left: Tiger

I hate it when that happens!LOL

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Galen Clark
www.captivescience.com

did it again...

Right: Tiger
Left: Fire

Sorry all.

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Galen Clark
www.captivescience.com

Other than colour see absolutely no difference in pattern....I always thought flame was little squiggly lines running along the sides, and tigers had them both sides and back...

Other than colour see absolutely no difference in pattern....I always thought flame was little squiggly lines running along the sides, and tigers had them both sides and back...

That is a valid point, realistically it is still too early to determine what is genetic and what is line. For a safe bet, I will usually refer to Allens descriptions as published in the 2003 annual.

To answer your question, IMO a fire lacks any or very little side coloration apart from the base color of the animal. I think that the prominance of light coloration extending approx. 3/4 up the dorsal from the base of the tail helps distinguish this.

As far as the sides are concerned, I personally have taken what I described above and if the sides of are the same coloration of the back covering 1/4 - 1/2 of the flank, I would consider this Harlequin.

I think the gecko on the right is more tiger stripe than a brindle, but it really is interpretive.

More than likely, due to polymorphism, we will have to use our own judgement and just pick the ones we like. If you get a chance, check out Allens article and take a peek at some of the photos. Color and pattern all over the place! Fire, Bi-color, brindle?? Who knows. Outstanding examples none the less.

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Galen Clark
www.captivescience.com

Thanks for the info and I will certainly re-read Allen's great artical (actualy it was that artical that made me aware of crestes existed). Unfortunately it is packed away in a box so I won't be able to read over it for a few more weeks.

I think Allen has his original version on the SFDR website. He had posted a link, but I do not recall it offhand.
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Galen Clark
www.captivescience.com

thanks again I will have to do a search for that, I remember him posting it not to long ago as well.

THANK YOU

From everything I've seen and heard, the "FIRE/FLAME" pattern that is so widely used that is doesn't even have a distinction anymore. What the Fire morph was originally was the pattern on the SIDES of the torso was that of a flickering flame. The back usually but not always has a whiteish color to it.... it doen't have to. It can be of slight color and the pattern can be more muddled.

The tiger morph has more of a stripeing pattern on the side and more stripes and breakups on the back.

Hope this helps.

Eric