Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well I posted the other day cause I noticed that my BRB was soaking now and again in the smaller pool thats over the heat pads. Well today I wake up to find him fully submerged accpect for his head in the larger of the two pools. Even more curious is this pool is on the cooler side of the tank. My tank ranges from about 70*F to 78*F. Now my first impression was maybe a humidity issue. But its been at 80% for the last month. So ehhh maybe hes just found something new that he enjoys doing. I mean its not a sign of anything nasty right?

Heres a pic I took from the top looking in. Theres a bit of a glare due to the fact there is a plexi glass cover over the actual top.

One last concern. Ive always had my snake in an environment with a temp range of 70*F to 80*F. Thats not too cool right? Just making sure. Again, Thanks for any replys!

Tamps sound good, verify no "pepper" flakes in the water. And as long as none are found, they do like to soak from time to time!!

"Pepper" flake pic:

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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
19.29 BRB
13.18 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

What do those flakes signify? Just incase I do ever see them.

Thanks

Those are snake mites, actually got some in on a new acquisition. Gave me the photo opportunity, pics are worth a thousand words!! I was ready for them, even half expecting them to pop up somewhere within several purchases I made last year so each quarantine cage was pretreated the day before arrival. They (mites) never had a chance!
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
19.29 BRB
13.18 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Well, I see them in the bottom of both bowls. About 4 - 5 in the small dish and a couple in the larger bowl. So now I guess I know why hes soaking so much. What can I do I dont want my poor snake to be itchy

Well, that answers the riddle.....ugh, sorry for that answer.

Get a can of Provent-a-mite, follow directions on can.

IMO, strip the cage of all porous materials. Bark, wood, moss etc. Only thing left should be non-porous plastic water bowl and hide. Use WHITE paper towels for substrate. The mites will show on white. Treat the cage, not the snake. The mites only come to feed, if the cage is treated, they will all die the horrible death befitting a mite. Should only take a couple of weeks to fully erradicate the nasty little buggers. Then you can re-furnish that cage with NEW stuff. I'm sure there are ways to sterilize the old stuff but again, IMO, not worth the effort/risk!!
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
19.29 BRB
13.18 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Well hes has a Doc appointment today! Just called the vets. I wanna have him checked up anyways. Ill let ya know how it goes. Plus I think the driftwood Ive had in there is the culprit. So .. no more branches.

Thank you for your quick reply. I would of never thought if you didnt tell me.

-Chad

You're very welcome, I knew that pic would come in handy, and has on numerous occasions.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
19.29 BRB
13.18 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Out of curiosity, as I've never had to deal with mites(knock on wood), how do you handle the humidity/hide? Or do you just not give them one and let them soak in water dish for humidity?

Thanks in advance,

Sean.

Well, I've only had them on a baby BRB, They are kept in shoebox tubs with nothing but paper towels and water bowl anyways. An older BRB will be able to withstand lower humidity levels for quite some time, plenty long enough to get rid of all the mites. Use misting to spread water around for evaporation. More important for short term is to get rid of the little nasties. Then you can get your humidity batter with damp hides etc. All my hides are plastic tubs with access holes cut in them. Easy to switch to paper for a time then switch back once all mites are gone.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
19.29 BRB
13.18 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Once you rid your tank from the mites, they wont return. It was most likely due to the pet shop where I bought the snake from. The tendency is when theyre moved around alot and forced to shared inclosures with other snakes that are " Imported " rather then bred.

He said my snake has a very minor case. I have some solution that I mix with distilled water and spray him with once every 10 days. After about the second spray I should no longer have a mite issue.

To be safe, he told me to wipe down the tank with the solution and also to soak any of the non-porous materials in it. As thats the breeding ground that these guys live in.

IE. your grape vine branch that looks cool at the pet store that may look even cooler in your snake tank, could be what makes your contract mites in the first place.

So as long as my environment doesnt changes after its cleansed* I should be good to go.

Also, Im a proud father of a little girl LOL

-Chad

of mites they won't return? Your vet doesn't know anything about snake mites if that's what he told you, rather than me explain follow the below link
The Life History of Snake Mites

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Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

Its funny you point that out, cause I didnt go to a dog / cat vet. I actually went to an exotic vet clinic the specializes in Exotic birds and reptiles. Rather then contradicting my statement with some life / history of mites... which hardly had any information other then what I already knew. Where does it say that they miraculously re-spawn and begin there life cycle again?

Maybe you didnt fully read my initial post, but I clearly stated that I in its entirety... washed / soaked my tank and every item in it, in a solution that instantly kills these mites. If your curious as to what the active ingredient is its Inermectin.

By wiping out any hidden location where eggs may have been, thus stopping that cycle of them hatching how the heck are they to return? Also, the point of misting the snake with the solution once every 10 days is to kill any mite that is in that particular stage in development in order to kill it before it "can" lay eggs.

I appreciate your denial of a professionals opinion. But I sure as heck will take his advice over some random post on the internet.
Have you know, it was him who also recommended to remove any wood or organic material. As that could be the breeding ground for the mites.

Considering my tank now consists of ONE large ceramic dish. ONE small ceramic dish, and ONE ceramic cave with a substrate that I just let soak in anti-mite solution and dry for an hour. Im curious where these mites are going to "appear"

I dont mean to be so bold in my reply, but your post came off rather condescending and abrupt to my prior post. Maybe more detail rather then a dead end link would better suite the nature or intent of your prior posts.

Sorry the correct spelling is >

IVERMECTIN

Mixed with 1 liter of distilled water.

Chad,
...Ivermectin is a pretty good mite killer. We used it in the reptile hobby for years. It will kill most of the mites but they will be back because it only kills some of the mite eggs. It also does not kill all of the mites instantly. If you will look very closely around the edges of your cage and in the smallest crevices you will probably find a few live mites tomorrow. BTW, when we used to use Ivermectin it was back in the days when we thought we were doing good if we kept a snake alive for five years. We have come a LONG way since then.
Good luck,
Jeff

>>Its funny you point that out, cause I didnt go to a dog / cat vet. I actually went to an exotic vet clinic the specializes in Exotic birds and reptiles. Rather then contradicting my statement with some life / history of mites... which hardly had any information other then what I already knew. Where does it say that they miraculously re-spawn and begin there life cycle again?
>>
>>Maybe you didnt fully read my initial post, but I clearly stated that I in its entirety... washed / soaked my tank and every item in it, in a solution that instantly kills these mites. If your curious as to what the active ingredient is its Inermectin.
>>
>>By wiping out any hidden location where eggs may have been, thus stopping that cycle of them hatching how the heck are they to return? Also, the point of misting the snake with the solution once every 10 days is to kill any mite that is in that particular stage in development in order to kill it before it "can" lay eggs.
>>
>>I appreciate your denial of a professionals opinion. But I sure as heck will take his advice over some random post on the internet.
>>Have you know, it was him who also recommended to remove any wood or organic material. As that could be the breeding ground for the mites.
>>
>>Considering my tank now consists of ONE large ceramic dish. ONE small ceramic dish, and ONE ceramic cave with a substrate that I just let soak in anti-mite solution and dry for an hour. Im curious where these mites are going to "appear"
>>
>>I dont mean to be so bold in my reply, but your post came off rather condescending and abrupt to my prior post. Maybe more detail rather then a dead end link would better suite the nature or intent of your prior posts.

Its not like I just sprayed the snake and dropped him in. I Thoroughly and vigorously scrubbed every inch inside the tank. Every corner, nook, and cranny. I was told that within 2-3 weeks if I still see "pepper" in the water dishes or visible mites around his head, to make another appointment. Although a good friend of mine had a severe mite infection on one of his ball pythons and with this same technique was able to suppress and eventually alleviate the problem.

I personally think the grape vine I had in the cage was ultimately the issue. I was having to bake that thing every other week at 225*F for 20min to kill mold. So It seems that could of been quite a breeding ground for the mites. Hopefully, since the removal of anything organic and porous. I can in time, fully cleanse my issue.

Dont get me wrong. I do appreciate everyone's opinions here. I just dont like it when people read only what they want to see and jump on it just for the sake of argument.
At least, that’s how I took it.

Didnt you just recently say that apon a recent acquisition you had some snakes that had mites. What what your secret technique to rid the bad guys?

Is what Im doing ass backwards? Or is there a chance that it will work. Since Ive always respected and never had any issue with any of the advice youve ever shared with me

Hey Chad,

I got off work, came home and was working on my breeders, cleaning, weighing etc.

Frank and Jeff were also giving you good info. Just treating the enclosure (for a full blown outbreak) may not be enough and you could have a re-infestation. Preggo mites will travel and if they lay their eggs away from the cage, does not matter how much you clean the cage, the eggs away from the cage are safe from your extermination efforts. I've had mites twice in the last year. Both times was on a new acquisition and both times I had pretreated the cage PRIOR to their arrival. In other words, no preggo mites escaped, since they had to cross the killing zone. So for me in both circumstances, that ounce of prevention was all it took.

For your situation, I would still recommend Provent-A-Mite since it's the only product I have experience with and it worked both times. It's used to treat the cage, so any buggers that go out for a stroll, come in contact with it and die. (insert evil grin here) For you I would also treat the area around the cage to keep any mites that may be out from getting back in alive. With a few weeks of weekly treatments, you should be OK.

As with any chemical, READ the directions, it is NOT to be sprayed on the snake and is NOT to come in contact with the water bowl.

Keep us posted on your progress and good luck.

P.S. I remember you mentioned they may have come from another snake? Might want to treat all of your cages at once. Just in case some buggers have made the pilgramage to the "new" all you can eat buffet.

P.P.S. I'm off to get dinner, will log back on when I return. Frank and Jeff really are good guys and were only trying to help.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
19.29 BRB
13.18 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Thanks for the replies, all of you. Just protective of my baby. Ill continue to keep and eye on my snake and if I notice that in a week or three more mites... or no change. You all will be the first to know.

Thank you again.
-Chad

Ok, mites do not stay in the snakes enclosure, so it is vital you treat the environment as well, which means the entire room. Not just the snake, it's enclosure and the enclosures contents. The link I gave you explained how much mites can travel in very little time, "gravid engorged female mites looking for a place to lay eggs can travel at a speed of up to 8 inches per minute, potentially 48 feet per hour, and they may travel several hours looking for a good place to deposit eggs. Unfed females are observed to crawl up to a rate of 11 inches per minute. That's 55 feet per hour! Out on a short stroll, mites can travel considerable distances from their host snakes. They easily can pass through the ventilated surface of a cage and travel to another area of a snake collection."
I thought(my fault) that most enclosures do not measure 48 feet, the mites will travel back to the snake, they can smell them from quite a distance, which one of the few reasons they spontaneously appear after treatment. I have been keeping reptiles and amphibians for over 30 years and have dealt with my share of mite infestations, all you need is one lone gravid female to start the entire process again, and they do not stay in the enclosure, I am 100 percent certain of this and I know at least 4 Vets on ARAV page in NJ that don't know a thing about treating reptiles and they are also exotic species specialist, that is a fact. The link explained a mites life cycle and the fact they don't stay on the snake or even in the enclosure for that matter. If your vet told you otherwise he doesn't know much about a snake mites life cycle or more like their habits. The reason I didn't give you any information is, I would hope you would research it yourself to be honest. If they left the environment and are not at ideal temps they can at cooler temperatures live up to 40 days and yes spontaneously return when you least expect it. That is why many people have a hard time eradicating them easily. He's correct in interrupting the mites life cycle, which is the only way to get rid of them, but treatment of the entire room with the proven documented and tested and patented for that purpose spray Dave mentioned is essential to properly destroy their live cycle due to their habit of leaving the snakes environment and possible exposing themselves to lower temps which will greatly lengthen their live cycle. All of this information was in that link I sent you and or could be deduced from reading it in it's entirety. I was not or am I trying to be condenscending in any way. Sorry if I came off that way.
ARAV

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Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

from reading a more recent post of yours, your vet said if they come back, make another appointment, how else do you think they would spontaneous come back after all his treatment? From the environment outside the snakes enclosure, you could do that same treatment he recommended 10 times and they could still come back, they don't always, but when they do that's how it happens. Also since lower temperatures can greatly lengthen their normal live cycle outside the snakes enclosure they can show up 40 days later just when you thought the pesky little vectors where eradicated, don't get me wrong they aren't always this tough, but when they are it's because the vital environment outside the snakes enclosure was overlooked, all in all mites SUCK! Most people vets included often forget the environment as a part of their treatment to eradicate these parasites.
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Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

did u read these two additional posts?
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Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

Yes I did, hopefully since the outbreak was quite minor. He only have about 5 visable on his entire body. I should be able to control it. Altough tomorrow I do plan on wiping down all surrounding structures around his tank. Just incase. Also going to look into the product that Rainbow-r-us told me about. Wouldnt mindt making a rim of death atop the tank

If you buy that stuff Dave (Rainbow-R-Us) was talking about and spray it around outside perimeter of enclosure, if any mites are outside in the environment, when they try coming back to prey on your snake you will kill them before they reinfect him/her, then there dead and gone once and for all. I HATE mites lol, below is a great link for that product. BTW what your vet said to do is not improper treatment, it's just not complete is what I was trying to say.
Bean Farm

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Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

Well the encloser is on an iron stand by itself. The only way out onto anything else is out the top and down the side of the tank and onto the iron base. So when I do purchase that product do I actually spray it around the outside of the *top* of the case and on the Iron stand that the tank is on? I shouldnt spray it *inside* the enclosure should I? I wouldnt want to hurt the snake in any way.

Thanks~

You spray any surface you want to treat including the inside of the cage. You have to let it dry before reintroducing the snake and remove any water PRIOR to spraying.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
19.29 BRB
13.18 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Wow quick response! Thanks, one and final question. How often do I have to spray to keep them away. Is this a once in a blue moon treatment. Or only after I clear up what Im currently going thru?

BTW my snake turned out being a female ;P

Once they are all gone, then no additional treatment required. While fighting the outbreak, weekly I believe.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
19.29 BRB
13.18 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Good posts here. I would only add to use the Provent-a-mite sparingly. A short spray on a surface and mites will die anywhere near it for several weeks. After you get them killed with two treatments you should not need to use it again until you bring another snake or contaminated rodents into your collection. A can of Provent-a-mite lasts for several years here at my house with around 75 snakes in the collection.
Jeff

>>Once they are all gone, then no additional treatment required. While fighting the outbreak, weekly I believe.
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Dave Colling
>>
>>www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com
>>
>>0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
>>0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)
>>
>>LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
>>19.29 BRB
>>13.18 BCI
>>And those are only the breeders
>>
>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

I am not sure if I would spray it inside the enclosure, it may not be a good idea due to what her vet gave her to use inside the enclosure, what he gave her will kill them, just doesn't treat the environment outside the enclosure effectively.
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Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

I only plan on spraying "outside" the top rim of the tank and the iron stand that the tank is on. I dont plan on spraying the prevent-a-mite inside the tank. Since Im already treating it with another solution. As like you pointed out, I have no clue how those two solutions could interact

p.s. Hope this was the msg that you wanted me to read. Which I did, just hadnt replied

yep that's the one, same reasoning about how they react to one another, maybe like bleach and ammonia for all I know.
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Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

I would not spray directly on the snake, I would definitely spray everywhere else including the stand, I believe it has killing value for 2 weeks and mites would actually crawl down the stand, they are pesky little pissants. KILL THEM, DECLARE WAR ON THEM. Just follow the manufactory directions and you will be fine, plus what your vet told you and you will have them beat for sure. So if they try crawling back up, they will die from the coating on the stand, I have had them in the past and saw them crawling on the walls of the room, far away from any enclosures, haven't had an outbreak in years, but have received snakes I had to treat so they did not infect my entire collection. Sorry for any misunderstanding we may have had.
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Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

No hard feelings. I just got defensive cause the last thing I wanted to hear was I was going to be unable to help my poor pet. But with your contributions and assistance I just ordered the Prevent a mite product. So "that" in combination with what the vet gave me.. I should give those dang mites a good run for the money!!

Good news is he said my snake was in excelent health. He was not obease in any mannar and had a good temperment. She weighs 50 grams lol. So shes still my baby.

Thank you again and no hard feelings.
-Chad

....
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Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

I dont know what other msg I could of missed? LOL sorry.
This thread got rather long, but Ive gone thru every post.

Chad,
..Dave and Frank have given you great input on the mite problem. Your chances of finding a veterinarian who really knows about treating reptiles is proably no better than 50%. Half the vets in the US know very little about treating reptiles. Many of them do not even know the different species that we keep. They will give generic information that would be great for one species and fatal for another. The product Dave mentioned Provent-a-mite has premethrin as it's active ingredient. Permethrin is also found in some other pet and human external parasite treatments. The use of any other chemical will yield less satisfactory and possibly injurious results. Many products will kill most of the mites but only Permethrin will kill all of the mites and their eggs without harming your snake. Can you tell us what the product is that the vet gave you? It will tell you whether you have found a good reptile vet or one of the weak ones. PLEASE do not tell us it is California Spray or olive oil.
Jeff

>>Once you rid your tank from the mites, they wont return. It was most likely due to the pet shop where I bought the snake from. The tendency is when theyre moved around alot and forced to shared inclosures with other snakes that are " Imported " rather then bred.
>>
>>He said my snake has a very minor case. I have some solution that I mix with distilled water and spray him with once every 10 days. After about the second spray I should no longer have a mite issue.
>>
>>To be safe, he told me to wipe down the tank with the solution and also to soak any of the non-porous materials in it. As thats the breeding ground that these guys live in.
>>
>>IE. your grape vine branch that looks cool at the pet store that may look even cooler in your snake tank, could be what makes your contract mites in the first place.
>>
>>So as long as my environment doesnt changes after its cleansed* I should be good to go.
>>
>>Also, Im a proud father of a little girl LOL
>>
>>-Chad

I more concerned with the mysterious subliminal religous overtones of that pic! :0
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Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

used the other side of the subliminal metal disk.

Never noticed that before, duh, knew the saying is in money but never noticed the pic so clearly captured it. Maybe divine influence, quick, call the tabloids!!
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
19.29 BRB
13.18 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

...
-----
Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Check for mites like Dave recommended. They will also congregate around a snakes mouth and eyes, that is a good place to check.
Aside from that it is most likely not a big deal. I have a couple of adult BRB's that seem to just love to soak from time to time, sometimes a full day at a time and I have others that I never see in their water tubs. It seems like it could just be a personal difference and prefrence between indviduals.
Milo