Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok, I know this is probably a stupid question but I'm going to ask it anyways. I've been using Aspen shavings in my enclosures for my boids but when I went to the feed store today they were all out and didn't know if they were getting more. The only other shavings they had besides cedar and pine was fir. Is fir toxic like pine? I'm thinking it is but I just wanted to make sure.

Thanks
Scott

If pine shavings were as toxic as people think, there would be few snakes on the classifieds today. Many (perhaps even most) of the largest breeders decades ago that popularized many species that are common in the hobby today - used pine shavings as the substrate.

A few snakes did have a non-life-threatening reaction to pine dust if the pine was still oily - i.e. hadn't dried out. I had a few that wheezed when I used a brand of pine shavings that were obviously not dried. Put them on newspaper and all was fine.

Fir is even less oily than pine, so I would think it was OK, but don't hold me to it. I'm just giving you food for thought.
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Mark

This is one of my pet peeves. I have been breeding snakes, mice and rats for 30 years. I have never used anything but pine shavings and have never had any kind of a problem.

You have never seen a "scientific study" that linked pine to problems. You can hear lots of horror stories on the internet about the evils of pine but none of them are substantiated. None of them have been researched and definately linked to the use of pine.

All substraights are bad if injested. Snakes cannot digest celulose and will get impacted if they are swallowing pine, cedar, aspen, or fir. Sand, coconut shells, yesterdays news, carefresh, will all plug you up if you eat it.

Be careful when you feed that the snake doesn't pick up a mouth full of substaight with the rat and you will be fine. The next time someone warns you about pine ask them where they got that information. If they can't come up with something better than "I read it on the internet" tell them they need to find a better source of information.
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Wade's Weptiles & Wodents

Well said by both you and MarkG. I have typically stayed on the fence about this and kept my mouth shut, letting the individual go with what fits their own peace of mind.

When I was in the zoo field I fed some very valuable reptiles rodents that had been pulled off of pine seconds earlier. Likewise, I kept many snakes on pine back in the 80's, just like a lot of breeders.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Malaysian locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

Thanks guys for clearing that up for me. I know better now

Scott

I figured I'd add my two cents as well. I currently work for a zoo and like Chris mentioned, we feed snakes on cypress and pine bark all the time. We've never had any ingestion/impaction issues. I keep all of my snakes at home on fir bark. At one time I used cypress exclusively but ceased using it because it's not produced in a sustainable manner whereas pine bark of different varieties comes from plantation-grown trees which are produced in a sustainable manner. In short, pine is fine.
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Matt Campbell

"I only went out for a walk and finally concluded to stay out till sundown, for going out, I found, was really going in." John Muir

Here's a question on that note for cypress and fir barks...do you "cook" your barks at all to kill any mites/other bugs on them? Or have you never had an issue with such?

I am just curious because I've always been told I should cook the mulch in the oven prior to storing/using it (I use cypress typically, but think I'll try Fir to see how they like it).

Thanks!

Amanda