Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hey guys...i just got a baby savannah monitorand have had some problems with him. I have had him a week and the first few days he was eating but stopped. he was very lethargic and i brought him to the vet today. he has calci sand in his bowels and the dr said he thinks that is the problem and to force feed him soft dog food mixed with water, .4 ccs 3 times a day. he said bathe him in warm water and rub him belly to try to get him to go potty. he isn't compacted or anything and his heat seems fine...98F on the hot side, 85F onthe cooler. has this happend to anyone else? i got rid of the calci sand and he is on newspaper now. does everything sound okay? he is about 10 weeks old, so any advice would be great!

Oh god...don't feed him dog food...force feeding usually does more bad than good. Bathing might be good. His temps are NOT fine. get a 130 or higher basking spot, ambients sound ok. I don't know which is worse...sand or newspaper? Get him on DIRT. plain ol' dirt. Some advice is to research more. I'm sure this happens to a loooooooot of people, but they end up being part of the thousands of baby savs that die. I assume you have a temp gun?

it would appear you are a victim of the ol' "this here is what he needs" syndrome common in many pet stores.

"Let's see that there is what they call a 'desert monitor' so this here $10 calci sand will be great. Just throw him in that aquarium with a screen top and..."

You need to research on this forum and well proexotics.com pretty much has the basics laid out for you, step by step. In fact get the sav book by Bennett from there right away. Temp gun too as mentioned.

Forget whatever the pet store moron told you (not all of us pet store folks are morons by the way). There are folks here that have forgotten more about monitor husbandry then I will ever know so read up (varanus.net too for the more advanced stuff with amazing pics all around). jcmonitor is our resident sav expert here and will answer any advanced questions you have.

good luck, you came to right place to give your little fella a proper home.

Tom

The best thing you can do is listen to the people on this forum. And your vet is an a$$. Tell him to stick with dogs and cats. This forum is great and will usually answer your questions with the best answers faster then searching the net. If you want to search the net, do go to ProExotics. Good luck

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Shannon in Reno
1 savannah monitor (Pombe-means "beer" in Swahili)
6 dogs
1 cat
32 rats
50 mice
54 chickens
2 beardies
1 black rat snake
~100 hissers
1 giant milipede

i have to force feed him because he wasn't eating. he is very small (about 3" and was very week and lethargic, he couldn't even climb on his basking spot. he would have died, he is doing a lot better now, but still not eating on his own. He is starting to get his strength back though.

My suggestion, and I think others would agree here, is that if your animal isnt eatting within, im gonna say another week, you need to get it to a reptile-savy vet, not just the closest, cheapest vet you can find.

Dont wanna spend the money? Well, if your dog or cat just stopped eatting you wouldnt try to force feed them before checking for internal problems, would you? There ya go.

And yeah, you def need to fix that cage. I feel for ya, I do. I just recently spent over $1,000 on a 125 gal. aquarium and stand only to come to the realization that it was far too small and a poor environment overall. Check out information regarding "stock troughs" , which are basically large stainless steel feeding troughs for livestock that can be built around, making a great sturdy cage thats resistant to warp..... problem is, these things are quite heavy, kind of expensive (NOTHING compared to the cost of a large aquarium) and require some level of handiwork to make them into a good cage.

Heres some basic info for you to work with:

*Basking Temps: you want ambients something like 80-90 with basking spots around 130-140 (these are Fahrenheit degrees and SURFACE temps, not air temps). If im wrong here, i have no doubt someone will correct me. Humidity should be kept at at least 50%, prolly higher (though im not 100% sure with Savs).

*Feeding: If you're going with the pet store outlook, im guessing youve been given the ol' "oh that animal only needs to eat 2-3 times a week (maybe less)" by the pet store. This is wrong. You should feed your animal daily, as much as it cares to eat. Insect matter, mice, rats, chicks/quails, as well as all manner of aquatic foods (fish, crab, shrimp, prawns, crayfish) should be offered, tho rodents should make up the basis of the diet (ive heard that weanlings are rather nutritionally deficient, so you may want to stick with feeder roaches or something as the main dietary stable til your guy is big enough to take on adult feeders).

*Substrate: Dirt, just plain ol dirt. Try to limit the amount of sticks/rocks that get into your dirt, as this can cause structural weak spots, making it not only harder for your animal to dig a sturdy burrow, but actually making it dangerous in the event of a cave in. Also, I dont think it is possible to get an impaction on dirt, or at least it is much more difficult. Try feeding your animal in a location where feeders cant get themselves mixed in with the substrate, which is usually how monitors end up ingesting said matter, causing impactions and the like.

*Lighting: Alotta people here us say "130-150 degree basking" and think, "Well golly, thats way too hot dont you think?" The long and short of it is, no, it isnt. These animals are much hardier than we are in terms of heat, and its healthier for them to have a very hot basking spot. This allows them to quickly get their temperature where they want it, instead of having to spend long periods basking (keep in mind, these are SURFACE temperatures, not AIR temperatures). UV lighting is nothing more than a waste of your money and has been regarded by people that are easily considered pro's as "unnecessary". Stick with a higher powered incandescent bulb, usually something like a 150 watt flood (i think...).

*Caging: With caging and monitors, one rule comes to mind: bigger is ALWAYS better. The bigger you can make your cage, the happier your charge will be. Im not sure with savannahs, but I know other large species (Niles and waters) have a minimal size requirement, MINIMAL size requirement, or 8' long x 4' deep x 4' wide. This is very large, but honestly, if you cant afford/dont have room for a larger cage, maybe you need to think about choosing a different kind of reptilian pet. If you are willing to give the animal what it needs, good stuff. Typically, the trough is used to hold the substrate. Wood is used to build a frame around the trough, which is then covered with FRP (fiberglass reinforced plastic, sold at home depot for $30 a 10' x 6' sheet).

Tips:

*when the time arrives, get your animal used to eatting frozen feeders- they are much cheaper when bought wholesale from places like rodentpro.com and make your life alot easier, while at the same time giving you a quick and available supply of feeders.

*patience: youve got to have patience, infinite patience, with these animals. They will work with you only on their terms, and if you try to force something on them the react the way you would expect: aggressively. Take time, dont get frustrated and be ready for problems to arise and ready to tackle them.

*honestly, if the above mentioned things seem more like work to you than anything else, you need to seriously re-evaluate something: Do you REALLY want a sav monitor? Why do you want it? Is there not another reptilian charge, possibly smaller and with fewer requirements/expenses, that would better fit your situation? You really need to understand that, with optimal care, a sav monitor can live for many years and become quite large. Feeding will become a matter of hundreds of dollars over a few months, thousands over a few years. The amount of substrate needed to fill an appropriately sized enclosure can easily weigh more than a ton. Your animal may at some point become aggressive (almost certainly will with age) and you need to be ready and prepared for a large, cold blooded predator that dosnt particularly care for you.... aside from when youre offering it food.

Basically, start working towards fixing your mistakes and seriously evaluate whether or not you realy want this animal, and if you REALLY do want it, whether or not you can REALISTICALLY care for it.

I was typing my post as you were typing yours. I could have saved my time. Great job. I spent $2,000 on my cage. I wish I knew about KS monitor forum before I bought the cage
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Shannon in Reno
1 savannah monitor (Pombe-means "beer" in Swahili)
6 dogs
1 cat
32 rats
50 mice
54 chickens
2 beardies
1 black rat snake
~100 hissers
1 giant milipede

How is he doing? Is he eating on his own? Do you leave crickets in his cage so he can eat if/when he wants? I am not sure what the basking temp should be for babies but I think 110. Have you replaced his substrate with dirt yet? Babies have to have high humidity. Try soaking him in luke warm water up to his shoulders to help hydrate him. Make sure that he has a water dish that he can fit his whole body in, he can get in and out easily, and that he can not drown in. If you have to force feed him use ground turkey or beef instead of the dog food. Offer him some cut up hard boiled or scrambled eggs to stimulate his appetite. Babies should eat as much as they can everyday. Good luck and keep us updated.

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Shannon in Reno
1 savannah monitor (Pombe-means "beer" in Swahili)
6 dogs
1 cat
32 rats
50 mice
54 chickens
2 beardies
1 black rat snake
~100 hissers
1 giant milipede

i do have a large tank we made when our old iguana got big, he grew to be 4ft long. the tank is 10ft high, 8ft long by 4ft deep. i have him in the 30 gallon because he is so small. i understand what savannahs require and i have no problem spending the money on a vet, the vet i went to is the best exotics vet around. i paid to have x-rays and everything. i do care a lot about this little lizard, thats why i am here. i will try the ground turkey, thank you fr the advice. i was giving air temps, his basking rock (no not a heat rock) is much warmer. i do feed him everyday, and the petstore i got him from wasn't commercial, he is from a breeder. he was eating 8-12 small crickets daily. i left a couple in there but he doesn't seem at all interested yet. i honestly dont think the heat is the problem. i give him wrm baths everynight and rub his belly to help get the sand out, but he has gone to the bathroom twice, so hopefully it is all out now. i appreciate everyones advice, but i also dont want to be taken as stupid and that i just got this lizard on a whim. i have been doing a lot of reading, before i even got him, i was well prepared and i do realize what i am getting into.

Good stuff. Just try to make him as comfortable as possible. If he isnt eatting but is going to the bathroom, there may be some kind of blockage. Is he going to the bathroom on his own, or does he only go when you rub his belly? If you have the X-Rays still, you may want to ask a second opinion if you can get it.

If you have to force feed him, try popping a cricket in behind whatever you are giving him. My Nile didnt appear to realize he could eat roaches, until when he was eatting a mouse one day and i just stuck it in his mouth, lol. He kept crunching away, swallowed the roach with the mouse and munched roaches happily from that day on. If you get your guy used to eatting crickets on his own, he may take an interest in them.

Glad to see youre on top of your game.

he is going to the bathroom, i am going to try not soaking him in the warm bath tonight and see if he goes on his own. he is going to the bathroom but still wont eat on his own. i checked temps in ALL areas of the tank and they are all the norm. are there any other problems besides the heat that could be causing him problems?

I see many are trying to help you, but, the only thing I agree with is find another vet.
The problem, other than the sand, is, you lizard is scared and stressed.
If your husbandry is up to par, try leaving it alone.
Offer clean water and food only.
No handling, no soaking, just give it some peace and quiet.
I have nursed too many savs back to health.
All I ever did was set them up in a proper cage with the right temps, good substrate, whole foods and lots of peace and quiet.

Scott
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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

I tend to think he might be stressin' too. I'm sure it's hard to leave them aloner when you know they are ill, but I think Scott's got the right idea.

Quig
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

I know he is probably stressed, but i left him lone for the first 3 days he didn't eat nd he was getting so weak he barely walked. I am trying to figure out the lesser of two evils here. force him to eat, which may stress him, but he lives....at least for now. or dont stress him and he will starve himself.

Ok, the simple answer here?

Give it time. Either he will come out of it, or he wont... not much YOU can really do either way, right? Give it some more time, see if things change... if not...

Complex Answer:

Take him back to the vet, tell him that you spoke with knowledgeable monitor people, and they said that wasnt the best course of action. Ask him, possibly by phone, if he/she would be willing to get in contact with a "more reptile savy" vet, and maybe talk to them about what could be going wrong. Dont be bossy or anything and BE SURE not to say ANYTHING that could be misconstrued as "you're a crappy vet"...
if your vet isnt a complete duesch, he should take the time to learn some new information that might help his future clients and increase his own personal knowledge (try to sell it to him like that, ie, "i think, since these people that have TONS of experience with these animals think thats a poor choice of action, that maybe, together, you and I could work on finding someone who has medicinal experience with this species, and maybe we could both talk to them about it".

or

Get him to another vet... let this guy know youve got people who arent idiots ready to tell you what is and isnt bullsh*t, and let him know you want a full diagnostics run on the animal.

Now the question arises, will that be more stressful? Probably... its gonna come down to some careful timing (if this persists).

i redid my guys tank and i wanted to add a pic to see what you guys thought...but i have no idea how to do that! is there a trick to it or am i just crazy?