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tupperware/rubbermaid?

nevrmore Aug 13, 2003 09:52 AM

i know this has probably been discussed before, but any answers would be appreciated.

what is the logic/logistics of housing cobras in rubbermaid/tupperware homes? i'm getting a baby monocled this weekend (again--got one two weeks ago, but he didn't survive the trip home), and i have a 10 gallon aquarium w/ locking lid set up for him. but i've read, perhaps on here or maybe elsewhere, that they should be kept in rubbermaid containers--shoebox size for a baby.
i know personally, if i were the snake i would prefer the room to stretch out. also, how does lighting/heating work? even a low-watt bulb would melt the rubber/plastic. and how would the cord for a heat pad get in? it's possible to cut a hold in the side, but that hole would have to be as big as the plug, and that's defintely big enough for the snake to leave through. most importantly, what of oxygen? is poking holes in the lid the right way to go? in a smaller-sized box, wouldn't feeding be more dangerous? the snake cannot climb the height of a 10 gallon tank to prematurely strike at food, but it is possible with a 6" high tupperware. in a home this small, what sort of bowl would be used for water? you would need one big enough for the snake to partially soak, but not so big that it takes up the whole container. and what about a hidebox? if it is a frosted rubber, is that necessary?
sorry if any of that sounded ignorant or assanine--i just want to create the best possible environment for little "fluffy".

Replies (9)

djs27 Aug 14, 2003 08:33 AM

Typically, reptiles are kept in rubbermaid bins for ease of cleaning. I have some difficult feeders who are sensitive to vibrations. When I try to secure the lid using tanks or akward cages, it often disturbs the animal and they drop the food. Using bins, I find that I can secure the lid easier and more smoothly. Space is the other issue. When you've got hundreds of snakes, the logistics of using glass aquariums just becomes rediculous. You can often times house double the amount of snakes in the same amt of space (at least!).

The system of rubbermaid bins are usually used when large colonies of snakes are kept. Custom made shelves are built so that the bin can slide in and out easily. When building them, lay the rubbermaid bin between two sheets of melnamine (sp?) or MDF. Put a spacer in there along with the rubbermaid bin. I like using 1/8 inch pegboard, but this can even get a little tight. For venomous, do all of this with the lid on. If anyone reading this wanted these cages for nonvenomous, having the top of the shelf act as the lid works well. Simply drill on the sides and you're all set. Of course, remove the spacer when the shelf is done. Before the animal goes in, add very small air holes all the way around. The size of the air holes depends on the snake species going in there. They can be melted or carefully drilled (which I prefer personally). I feel more comfortable with bigger holes for nonvenomous. Using the lid will be necessary or at least advised for your own health. You can safely remove the bin and set it on the floor before actually opening it. The only facility I've been to where this is used for hots was The Serpent's Den in PA. The system seemed to work very well for them. Flex watt heat tape is often put on the bottom of the shelves. In fact, you probably want that on the shelf before you drill the sides. I didn't do that when I made shelves for nonvenomous and the space got a little tight. Obviously, use a dimmer so the tape doesn't get too hot.

I think this system can be used safely, but I think it is a little more casual than keeping venomous should be, especially for the beginner. I would probably not recomend using this rubbermaid bin system for you. First off is experience. From your post, it sounds like this is the first cobra you're getting (aside from the one death). It is much easier to get ANY snake into a tall sided glass aquarium (or even better, a well designed hot cage like vision, etc) than into a short sided rubbermaid bin. The fact that the animal in question will be venomous makes this much more dangerous for you. I've never tried to get a cobra into a rubbermaid bin and put a lid on it, but I've gotten them into hot boxes. I know they can be slippery and quick when they want to be. This will be a challenge for you at times.

If you have a huge number of animals, it may be worth it for you to build a shelf system (especially once you gain more experience with this cobra). Housing any snake in a rubbermaid bin alone is too risky for me, especially for venomous. The lids are just too flimsy and can be bent. Without something flat on top, like the MDF, the possibility for escape is there. I didn't feel comfortable housing sand boas in free standing rubbermaid bins and I would never do it for hots.

For the record, I don't like housing in glass aquariums either. I think you'd be much better off getting a professional cage specifically designed for venomous, like vision. Every cage design has potential flaws, but I think most of these are the safest for the handler and for keeping the snake inside.

Other people may disagree, but I think that with your current experience and setup, avoiding a rubbermaid shelf unit would be the best for you at this time.

Later,
Dave

nevrmore Aug 14, 2003 09:09 AM

thanks for the reply.
i'll definitely look into the vision cages down the road a little. i'll be getting the snake on sunday, so i don't think i'll have the time to get one and get it set up before then. but based on what you said, i think i'll stick with my 10 gallon for now. i don't have an excessive number of snakes--in fact, i only have one other (a ball), along with two lizards (e. uro, nile monitor), and two frogs (pacman, splashback dart). they all share their own little room, and the cobra will be in there too.
by the way--you mentioned serpents den in pa. a friend of mine told me about that place, and after seeing their website i made the 40 /- mile trip and i must say i was very disappointed. their site advertised over 600 reptiles in stock. must have been a typo, because 60 would be a high estimate.

anyway, thanks for the suggestions.

djs27 Aug 14, 2003 10:54 AM

You didn't go in the back... did you?

There are snake rubbermaid bin shelf units stacked up to the ceiling. There's everything from little vipers in shoe boxes to large cobras in sweater boxes.

I drove from Buffalo, NY (about a 7 hour drive) to get a black paki, blacktail rattlesnake, western massasauga, and a canebrake rattlesnake. My venomous advisor traded him a few venomous and nonvenomous for these guys. Steve gave us a pretty good trade value too. Everyone was happy and healthy.

Later,
Dave

Serpents Den Aug 14, 2003 09:27 PM

Sorry you were disappointed but like Dave has said you didn't see the larger half of my store. Being a retail store with the location I have being between Movie Cinamas an Arcade, Blockbuster Video and other stores I would be driven crazy with the general public. I know this because I use to display everything publically and wanted to kill people....lol Now people that are just your normal walk-in's will only see the more common types of reptiles and some less uncommon in many Pet Store's and normally little or no venomous species.
Anyway this goes for anyone who I don't personally know that is a reptile enthusiest, please call ahead of time and schedule some kind of appointment and I will be more than happy to bring you to the BACK ROOM where all the goodies are

Steve Markevich
Serpent's Den
Lehighton, PA
www.serpentsden.com

djs27 Aug 15, 2003 05:24 PM

Steve,

Let me know if you are able to expand. I know you mentioned knocking out a wall, which would be great.

Thanks again for letting me see those N. kouthia eggs hatch. That was a real treat!

Dave

Serpents Den Aug 15, 2003 05:49 PM

I'm going to be talking to my lanlord soon to see if he will let me rent the space next door where the Arcade is, if so I will renew my lease if not I will be looking to move when the lease is up which is 2 years away yet. Good thing I have 14' ceilings....

Steve
http://www.serpentsden.com

Bapian Aug 15, 2003 11:03 PM

Hi Steve,

I wondered if you know of anyone in North America who has one or more captive Oxyuranus Microlepidotus ? I mean private collectors, such as yourself, other than zoos ?

Would you also please care to comment on what a true cobra is ? The reason I ask this is because, I've noticed the Asian variety, namely the Sri Lankan, Indian, and such while being monocled etc.....also possess a wider hood, as opposed to their African counterparts, who seem to be larger, and have a narrower hood, and in some cases a mere spreading of the neck.

Be obliged to read your responses. Many thanks.

Brian.

Serpents Den Aug 16, 2003 10:58 AM

Hi Brian,

Sorry I don’t know of any private collectors with Oxyuranus microlepidos though from time to time Oxyuranus scuttelatus canni are imported and become available publicly.
All Naja species including those from the African counterparts are recognized as True Cobras.
You can do a internet search to look more into the biology and taxonomy differences that come between various cobras and what makes them a true cobra or not a true cobra.

Steve
www.serpentsden.com

Chance Aug 16, 2003 11:00 AM

Though I'm not Steve and can't really help you out on your first question as I don't even know zoological institutions that keep anything but PNG taipans, I do believe I can help on the second. When people refer to true cobras they refer to snakes in the genus Naja. This includese Asian Naja like monocleds (kaouthia), spectacleds (naja), black and white spitters (siamensis), Sumatran (sumatrana), Indonesian (sputatrix), Russian (oxiana), etc; as well as all African Naja like forests (melanoleuca), capes (nivea), red spitters (pallida), black-necked spitters (nigricollis), Egyptians (haje), etc. Other "cobras" that aren't real cobras are coral cobras (Aspidelaps), water cobras (Boulengerina), rinkhals (Hemachatus), and king cobras (Ophiophagus). These snakes superficially resemble cobras but for some reason or another, be it live birth and keeled scales (rinkhals), or impartial hoods and other physiological differences (coral cobras and king cobras, etc). Anyway, I hope this helped a little.
-Chance

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