Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok, a few basic questions:

Im plannin on using plywood, approximately 3/8 of an inch thick.

What needs to be done to the wood before I start working with it? Sanding? Any treatments?

Would greatly appreciate it.

nah...dont worry about treating it.

There is no one set thickness or design, let your imagination run wild.
Also, I painted some back in 91, the paint has finally wore off. I normally like to use old weathered scraps, I like them to "air out". I have also used new wood without problem.

Also, these stacks are not suppose to be stacked strait up. While thats OK, monitors really like them to be tilted up. Say, something along a 45 degree angle. I often offer both, boards stacked flat and another stack tilted.

You also do not need thick wood. The point is to allow a range of temps. Thick plywood does not allow much of a range. 1/4 inch is perfect. Then again, you can use thicker if you have that. Cheers

I know that Argus monitors aren't crevice dwellers, but I thought I'd experiment a little and offer 'em slanted stacks. I had the higher end under the basking area but they didn't use it the same way little rock monitors would. I don't think they care to bask that way. I left it in there for a good month, but all they'd do is lay on the very top of the boards directly under the heat. After the initial investigations they never went between those boards again unless to pass through.
it was fun to watch for a while, but they didn't use it... so I took it out.
cheers

Shay, I really don't understand how you can make such a statement. Because you tried it and it did not work, only means one thing. You did may not have set it up right.

There is no question Argus and the whole gouldi complex use retes boards. I have been using them with this group for 17 years.

We do have a few conversations and one this I find strange is. Your new(not bad, just new) and you seem to have more faith in yourself, then you do in the monitors. I understand you may be ten times smarter then me, but I often test things dozens of times and in many ways, under different conditions. Then I make a judgement call. Even when I make a judgement call, I do not believe I am absolutely right. I simply think I could not do it right.

Heres a couple of enjoyable pics of the same cage with the same number of animals in it.

Now heres the same cage a few hours later, where do you think the rest are???

The real important point here is, you are saying THESE animals DON'T DO what these animals ARE doing in the above pics. Which means your very wrong. You could have said, you tried it and it did not wrong, but don't blame it on the species, please blame the keeper, you. You must not have done it right.

I am trying to use a dumb analogy, oh heck, I will, there are people who drive tractors and can use a backhoe like it was part of them(me, hehehehe)(I own one) There are other people who can jump on a backhoe and cannot figure out how to start it. No problem so far, except when the person who cannot start it blames the tractor. Get it, you need to learn how to drive your monitors. Until you do, you will not be able to run them all that well. I have to ask, what gives you the idea you know how to drive the tractor(monitors hahahahaha) Your just starting, in time you will.

So until the time comes you actually are one with your monitors, what you think is more about you then it is about the monitors, and I don't care what kind we are talking about. Cheers

yeah, I probably had it set up wrong...Well no I didn't. Just because I got it wrong and the monitors didn't care for it doesn't mean the experiment was a waste. I still learned something from the few individuals that were exposed to it. They didn't like it. I set it up the way I wanted and was going for 45 degree stacks that were set up high off the ground like crevices up in rocks or something. I'm sure if I had the stacks laying flat on the ground like yours, they would have wedged them selves under them. I like trying different things with these guys and plan on trying a few different variations of these. This one didn't work. It was fun watching them figure out what to do with it though.

I probably can't start a backhoe, but I'd have fun trying.
cheers

OK, now heres the real problem HERE ON THIS FORUM. You think its about how the boards are stacked that makes it usable. Well, that is a small part of it. But its not anywhere close to what is important.

This is why there are so many arguements with many of these knuckleheads(and that is exactly what these people are being) You think it one thing, but because you have no experience your WRONG, its something else all together. This causes arguements because, you think I am messing with you, and sir, I am not.

You think I insult you, but in all reality, you are insulting eachother. Do you really think your smarter then the 1000's that failed with this before you???? Do you think its so simple, you can stack a few boards up and off the monitors go? There are zoo people, there are PHD's, there are experienced animal people, who like you, cannot figure monitors out. And you think its slanting the boards or not??? Shay, that has nothing to do with it.

I ALWAYS mention, useable temps. I say that because, if they do not use them, it does not matter if you supply them or not. I say usable humidity. For the same reason. To put it simply, if the boards do not have the right conditions, conditions that satisfy their needs, they simply do not use them. Monitors or any reptile could give a crap about the boards, they are looking at satisfying their needs and that is it.

If I tried to put my finger on the problem with monitors, it would be, they are smarter then us. They simply "know" what is good and what is not. They do not bother trying to fix what does not work. They simply go find what does, or die trying. Like dirt, people think the monitor has to dig and dig and dig to find out if dirt is good(or any nesting material) Well they don't have to dig, THEY KNOW BY TOUCHING THEIR NOSE TO GROUND. They know what the conditions are, in the ground. They don't have to dig to know, they sense it. They only panic dig, that is, as a last resort.

The problem is, Shay, you think its about you, its not. Its about the monitors. We argued the first time because you already think you know, when you don't. You have ideas, sir, that is not knowing. Your throwing your ideas at the monitors and they throw that back. Then you say its the monitors problem.

Its THIS SIMPLE, its not about what you know, its only about what the monitors understand. If they don't understand something, YOU are not offering something they "CAN" understand.

I am sorry I cannot say what you did or did not do, as I have no friggin idea. You do not show what is important. You only show what YOU think is good. All I can say in a difinitive manner is, THESE MONITORS LOVE RETES BOARDS, but only if the boards offer something of VALUE to them. If they do not use them, its not the boards, its "you" not offering something of value.

Heres the a huge thought. There are people, like Will Still or Rsg or Jefe. they started like you, but when they had problems, they showed the problem, and I would say this or that, and they adjusted the problem until it was no longer a problem. They all experience very fast success(monitors are easy) But it was not about me or about those folks, it was about the monitors.

You and others I offend are WRONG, its not me, its you. You always come up with something like this, BUT I THOUGHT THIS OR THAT. OF course you did, thats why its wrong. You have no business thinking. You are new, you have nothing to think with. You have no reason to know anything. YOUR NEW. You fail at this one thing. You cannot tell the difference between you knowing something and you hoping something. Sir, we all hope stuff, but it really has nothing to do with knowing or being right.

I "hope" you understand this. But I know, your having trouble with this. I know because of your results. In the time we have been "arguing" I can raise up and breed argus, without problem. Again I hope you understand. If you want to narrow it down we can discuss how you make decisions. I say that because I believe thats where the problem lays. When you make decisions, you decide some things are "real" or "important" when they are not. And because you hold your own decisions important, you defend them "tooth and claw" much like many others here.

The "difference" between us is, if one of my "decisions" does not work so well, I throw it out and try again. As in, I am not that important. I am only a keeper, I am only guessing, the monitors are the subject, they are the ones that KNOW. I do not let my ego get in the way. Others/you, DO let your ego get in the way. cheers

no worries, I'm not offended, but I think you missed the gist of my last post. I just admitted that I had it set up wrong. I also stated that I'm willing to throw that idea out and try another one.

you have to understand(and I'm sure you do) that most knowledge is learned the hard way, meaning trial and error, failing and learning from it, hitting rock bottom and climbing back up, experience.

I may not have had a lot of dialog with you, but I read all your posts and all the posts of others who have had a lot of success or field experience, and I experiment and adopt these husbandry techniques. I'm not willing to call myself a failure with monitors yet. I kept lone monitors for the first 6 years or so. I briefly had an adult male and female 2 years ago that I was hoping to breed, but I had an unfortunate winter incident where the female died. Now I have a young group that is just now reaching maturity, so in my opinion this will be my first real chance to breed. I just hope I have a female.

I'm not letting pride or ego get in my way as you say. I'm very willing to change things that may be wrong. The problem is when you criticize something I'm doing or saying, I don't think...wait, I know you don't know the whole story, or all the conditions. You have a habit of assuming what I think and what I do. Of course I get annoyed with that on occasion and ultimately I don't gain anything. I have no hard feelings, and I'm not insulting you. I do have a deep rooted passion to learn and experience all that you and others have so I look forward to future conversation maybe even arguments LOL. (I know you enjoy the arguments) cheers

I am not sure about your having to hit rock bottom to start learning. In fact, I totally disagree. I kinda thought thats what these forums are for, so you can COPY someone with success. Then after you have copied it, fine tune to meet YOUR needs.

The problem is what you do. You seem to be trying to take all sorts of information thats contrary or out of context to other information and make one thing out of it. I think thats not wise. After all, having a successful reproductive experience is not the end of learning, ITS MERELY THE BEGINING.

I simply wonder why people are so egotistical they cannot copy. What the heck do you think we share the information for. You don't have to figure it out, just copy it. dang how simple is that. what the heck kind of people have to go around reinventing the wheel. Dude the wheel is already invented, copy it, then you can make any funny kind of wheel you like.

You see if you just copy, in a very short time, you will have your offspring and you can use them to test stuff, and their offspring and their offspring. Wouldn't it be better to copy then to invent??? By the way, I am the king of copy. hahahahahahaha I do not need to know why, I just copy and then figure out why AFTER I get results. Cheers

actally the "hitting rock bottom" was just an example of ways people learn or gain experience(a bad experience is good experience). I don't suggest it though.

Learning something means you understand it. Here's my little analogy. Math is a good example. when you do algebra you use lots of formulas. If all you do is memorize the formulas you'll get the right answers for your homework, but you won't really understand it. In time I'm sure you'll forget the formula and lose the concept and know how to do this kind of math. If you understand the formulas and know how and why it works you'll remember it and be able to use it forever.

I do copy husbandry techniques. Many from you. But I want to understand why it works. It's a lot easier to understand why things work when you have things that don't work to compare with. This is learning the hard way. Sure I can do all you say and get positive results, but I'll have to give all the babies to you, because you did it. I want to get results, positive or negative based on my own understanding of how it works. Thankfully you and others have many of the right anwers and when compared to all my failures I learn. so thank you
cheers

Hey, not to interrupt this wonderful lil discussion but, two questions:

Should the wood be sanded? If so, what grade would you suggest?

Like many people, I worry alot and Ive seen crazy stuff happen, so I wanna take all precautions- really dont feel like inspecting my monitor one day to find a massive splinter or some nasty thing.

Im gonna test a few things out, but I think I can see, just by watching where my animal spends most of his time, where he could best use a rete's stack style setup.... it wont be 100% like normal, as im incorporating a large piece of drift wood.

We'll see if it fits his needs... if not, either it'll be worked out or removed.

Secondary Question:

With incandescent lights, what distance do you want the light source to be from the animal?

Im gonna switch from multiple lights to 1 or 2 high watt bulbs, im thinking a 150 watt incandescent flood for during the day, with a 100 watt red heat light for at night.

I just worry about the distance between the animal and such a high powered light source... granted, its probably fine, but like I said- I tend to worry.

My guys doing great tho, and by the end of the month construction will begin on his new cage (depending on availability and price, either a stock tub or a large semi-walkin enclosure). For now, hes got about 2' of nice dirt to dig in (has a big arse burrow going that seems to expand and change daily) and is feeding well everyday. Im having alil trouble keeping his basking temp up at night, but that should be fixed soon.

Sanding is generally not necessary. If you what to be anal about it, you could sand the edges of the boards.

I think switching from multiple low wattage bulbs to a higher wattage is going in the wrong direction. What kind of monitors are we talking about? I mainly use 25watt to 65 watt incandescent bulbs. I usually either run the regular basking lights 24/7 or 12/12 with no heat at night.

If you use low wattage bulbs you can place them within reach of the monitors without the bulbs causing burns. See the pic below:

Shay, the point is that you simply are not capable of understanding much at this juncture. Stop trying to understand things. Stop making assumptions, drawing conclusions and stop thinking so darn much. Just raise your animals, get lots of eggs, hatch them, raise up your hatchlings, etc etc, and in time you will start to learn from your own observations of your own animals.

I don't think that Frank is going to demand your firstborn or anything, but we all are indebted to Frank because he is a pioneer in these areas. You just can't get away from that. But if you ever do reach some basic level of understanding, you will understand that the key to success is merely putting in the work and taking good care of your animals. It really is just as simple as that. And no one can take the credit for that away from you.

Cheers

Thats what I am hinting at Shay, your taking some algebra from me. Putting it with some calculus from someone else, and adding geometry from someone else and hoping it will work.

Your better off copying one method.

Why I say you make it about it about you, you make choices you "think" are right or make sense. You put all this stuff together because YOU think its right. Your making it about you.

You could set up your monitors in a typical petshop set up and work them from there much faster then picking and choosing little pieces from Those you have faith in. Your faith is misplaced. Your faith should be with the monitors.

For instance, you posted a pic of your larger argus. It is overfed or undermetabolized. I say that because of the shape of its body and tail. Is that a bad thing? nope? its your monitor. But that shape is a direct result of its conditions. That is what you should be looking at. You should have faith that if a monitor is kept right, it will be shaped right.

The reason I say this is, you post, I was wrong or I was right, or you think I am wrong or right. I post pics of monitors being successful, because, they are right for that moment, for that event. About me, I most likely made a ton of errors and a ton of good choices along the way to allowing that event.

Another way to look at it is, people on several forums like to say FR is wrong and this and that. Which is great, because that means they too have missed the boat. If i post a pic of a good event, then that is the right, end of that story.

Think about this, my western pond turtle female is about to lay(her third clutch this year)(I learned to palpate eggs in her) I raised the pair from hatchlings(From George in Fla.) THis is their first year of producing. I screwed up the first two clutches and she laid in the water. I hope I made better nesting, I think I did, I will know soon. I will only know about this one clutch. Then its back to guessing.

All in all, read Neals post, your overthinking, overworking and pushing. Dude, just ride those ponys. Cheers

FR wrote:
Why I say you make it about it about you, you make choices you "think" are right or make sense. You put all this stuff together because YOU think its right. Your making it about you.

This quote is a little funny to me. My monitors are in captivity. That means I have to make choices for them. But I do my best to understand them and make it about them. Maybe you're trying to say "offer them choices". I do. I sometimes offer different choices to see if they like/use it. Just to be clear about what you're talking about, how do I make it about them?

I think the main problem we're having here, is these conversations are in text. You must think I'm constantly tinkering and changing stuff. I'm not. I'm not trying to reinvent husbandry. I'm not trying to figure out difficult equations. I take it as it comes. I do try to evaluate any progress or regression though.

Neal wrote:
Stop trying to understand things.

this is an interesting quote. I don't really agree. Whether I'm capable of understanding or not, I will always try to understand.

Like I said before, this will be a fun Summer. The kids are reaching the legal age and we'll soon see if I'm providing the right conditions to allow those basic behaviors and get some healthy eggs. my fingers are crossed. oh, happy Easter
cheers

Understanding comes with experience- which you lack. Until you have experience why not try to just observe your monitors without trying to force any understandings that you just aren't ready for. Maybe try letting it come to you instead of chasing after it. You may think constantly groping for understanding is of value. I do not. I think being able to deal with constant uncertainty is of value. Cheers

Neal, I'm sure we all learn in different ways. I do a lot of observing, and trying to understand my observations comes natural. That doesn't mean I'm crunching numbers. It's just everyday business. I'm not forcing anything. Thank you for making it perfectly clear to me how much experience I lack. Your words seem pretty argumentative though. It's a little hard to judge what I do unless you spent some time here.
take care
shay

First, no one is being arguementative except maybe you. Heres the deal, you seem persistant. So both Neal and I are trying to help. Most simply quit and sell or bury their monitor by now.

The more we try and help, the more you fight back. You do not have to fight back. In fact, the easist thing to do is nod your head and go about whatever you were going to do in the first place. Yes, you can turn this on us, but as I alway in this situation, I say, WE ARE NOT THE ONES WITH ALL THE QUESTIONS or problems. You are.

You seem to be an academic. Because you have academic problems you believe in the written word. The academics do that to, they make choices they believe in, you know, what so and so wrote, and fillydee said, and arcohockey saw in nature. They also have to have it fit in with their peers. While this is all fine and dandy, its not about real live monitors. You see, the concept both Neal and I are trying try put in words(my real weakness) is, you do not need to know, you do not need to agree. You just need to practice keeping with the monitor as the focal point. Not having your prejudices as the focal point. Please look these words up and see what they mean.

The point is, monitors progress in a known(now) way, ARGUS progress in a known way, all you have to know and do is, allow the individuals to progress in that known way. First, they grow fast, end of that story. But remember, they should(but do not have to) grow in a normal argus shape. If they don't, there is something wrong. If they grew within the normal, adult size within a year, they have the conditions to form eggs. You do not have to change anything, just let them progress.

Yes, it appears individuals that take longer then a year to mature and have successful reproductive events, seem to have problems. Yes, they can function properly, it just appears they don't in most cases. How this should be interpided is, those keepers that provide suitable conditions, see results in less then a year. Those that don't do not see these events ever or rarely. Sir, this is known history.

The key to all varanid species is not this, the raising of young ones. That is the easy part and particular easy with argus. It seems with argus a takes a big cannon to stop them. In other words, you have to actively interfere with them to not succeed.

The problem is nesting with most species. This is a big challange, varanids are obligate nesters with a highly prejudiced choice in nesting. Sir, this is not in books and this is why the dang academics fail. If they cannot read it, they cannot do it. Please point that out to them and they will be successful now. hahahahahahahaha.

But that is not your problem, your problem is not growing even thought at least one is shaped wrong. Its sexing them. Sir, not having the ability to sex them means one thing, your a newbie.(I wish they had a key for a giant PERIOD) Look around you, there are many folks that had successful breeding programs. Now think about it, in order to have a successful breeding program, you have to have pairs. Which means you have to know males from females, which also means they must stay together long enough to make babies. So those with successful programs, must be able to sex them. They are experienced, those that cannot are not. PERIOD. Yes there are lots of newbies squeaking like an old rusty bearing. The successful ones do not have to squeak.

So yes, before you can solve the nesting thing(already known in many ways with argus) you must solve the sexing thing. How dang easy is that?

Back to the academic thing. The problem with them seems to be the problem with you. You seem to have to know stuff before you actually know it. Academics read something, and memorize it, and think they know it. Then because they know it, they try to apply it. Hmmmmmmmm thats called being prejudiced(false knowledge) To know, is after its been successfully applied. To read it is to be aware. What they actually know is the difinition of words and terms, what they are struggling with is how it applys to living animals.

Again theres nothing wrong with that, except one tiny thing, with a living animal, that does not debate or argue, you are either RIGHT or WRONG. So if your prejudiced, you better be right. With academics as a whole, they have a huge book of knowledge(written) and nearly nothing is actual applied results. And they have tried. Which clearly indicates, their prejudices are wrong or more nicely put, DO NOT APPLY IN THIS CONTEXT.(wrong, wrong, all wrong)

Which leads back to the point Neal and I are trying to tell you. You do not need to know all that stuff, in fact, it APPEARS to get in the way. Set them up, simply, let them progress with known methods, then gentlemen "start your engines" which means, then and only then will you start to learn something. After you have "read" your monitors being successful many times, then and only then will you know something. Until then, your a newbie.

I guess this is one of these things like AA, the first step to success is to admit your a newbie. Heck, I stand in front of all of you and I still admit to being a newbie. Just a good one. hahahahahahaha

Throught out the years, many folks come in with that condition(prejudiced) then when the actual facts hit them in the face, they respond with, BUT I THOUGHT. My responce is, why were you thinking that. If they are smart, they think about that. IF they are actually smart(not textbook smart) they will understand, they had no reason to prejudice themselves with infomation that is clearly out of context.

The infomation you seek(in context) is here and abundant. The truth is, its up to you to figure this out. Its not our job to type our fingers to the bone and be called arguementative.

Lastly, don't blame us for trying to HELP you. And don't blame us for you being very hard to help. The reason your hard to help is, you think your smart(someone told you that somewhere)and you probably are in other areas. But it remains your highly prejudiced(in this context) by what you read/hear. Another point, animals do not fall for that crap. They are real. cheers

(nodding head) roger that, newbie it is.

I or we write a big long post, it encludes lots of stuff about monitors, yet the only thing you respond to is two things about you????

Is there something I am missing? does it hurt to be a newbie? Is it a burning searing pain?

Lets see, you don't know how to sex an argus, you don't know how to breed them, you don't know how to nest them. Sir, your a newbie. Your not sure how to raise them. I do not care if you kept them 100 years, your a newbie.

You know how I keep suggesting making the monitors the focal point, then you can learn and really know something. Its starts with your posts, stop making them about you. Stop making it about who said what, or you read this. I would love to wish you luck, but with your attitude, you will only need a shovel.

Please go take a pain pill. Cheers

The sad part is I've been writing with a good attitude. I can't figure out why it keeps coming off as prideful or arrogant. None of what I've said has been written with that intent.

I'm not a newbie with keeping monitors, but I am a newbie when it comes to breeding and understanding those behaviors. What else do you want me to say? When these posts started, I thought we were finally having a worth while conversation. But you can't help but judge every thought and action I have with malice. So this isn't a conversation anymore, it's a lecture. So as I said in my last post (nodding head) roger that FR.

FR, give people a break man.

It takes time, LOTS OF TIME, to learn how to put something before yourself, to have trust in an animal over your own intelligence (especially when youve seen that animal do some really dumb stuff, lol).

Most, if not all of us, are newbs compared to people like you (ie, have had years/DECADES learning these animals in and out).

Anyone, yourself included, knows that to truly understand an animal, you have to spend time observing them, learning from them, letting THEM teach YOU. And not only that, EVERY animal is different, not just a member of a species- they all have personalitys of their own, and some things may work for some and not others....

Basically man, theres nothing wrong with being a newb.

But you guys sure make it seem like there is. While I "think" you're just trying to offer people alil insight into the animal and how you , personally, think of/ deal with them, you tend to come off kinda rude.

I know, I know, you arent here to coddle people... but Shay dosnt seem like the standard "throw it in a fish tank" and i think, honestly, that this topic has been taken way too far.

If you wanna be productive, take a look to the top of the threads.... youll get the joy of seeing a pre-purchase, future Sav owner making all the worst mistakes....

just throwing in my 1 cent....

Is it not the advantage of having someone with experience to speak of that experience and not speak just like another beginer? In otherwords, your advantage is keeping me talking results of my experience and not talking on your level. After all, there are lots of folks on the beginers level. Well, beginers like to talk to other beginers because you agree with eachother. And you do not agree with me, someone with lots of experience. You would rather fail then think you are wrong(you is beginers)

This is what is very important here. Beginers are suppose to TAKE ADVANTAGE of those with experience. They are suppose to REACH UP and grasp what it took to become successful, not disagree with it because its not what they thought. If your not succeeding, of course its not what you thought. How simple is that.

You must understand its not very complicated, if you folks would just forget what you think you know, and start with a workable learning process. And that is exactly whats wrong with Shay, he feels what he reads is more important then what he sees with his animals. He(and others) look for every little twist and innuendo with what I write. Yet, your monitors are screaming for their lifes to tell you something and you ignore it. I guess this is kinda like sex, you lead and you follow, all at the same time. You actually make a dance out of it. I guess folks cannot dance.

In a nutshell, stop making monitors fit your preconcieved mode and start to adapt to what they are actually doing. If you do that, you will have tons of eggs and zillions of offspring. After all, they do not require all that much.

The hard part is erasing what you already think you know. Cheers

Hrmmm...

Thanks for the insight.

The problem is, your missing the point, and boy I mean a swing and a miss. Remember, its ONLY, the point I am attempting to make and I believe Neal too.

Thats the part thats so frustrating for both of us. You seem to be moving along, then you go back to what you know, or defending whether your a newbie or not, or now what a newbie is. Now your not a newbie with keeping monitors, but your a newbie with breeding them. THat brings up two points, the first and most obvious is, we are discussing matters of breeding monitors. Secondly, breeding(recruitment) is the first level of success, below that, they are gone from exsistance. Of course there are many levels of quality of recruitment. Or levels of success, if you will.

Neal put it very simply, just do it. And you are, but your problems are based on your expectations. You think this an you think that. And the monitors sorta, or do not follow what you thought. Who cares if this is exact or not, the point is, you do not have to know. Just do it. The monitors will tell you.

You say you read all this and that. You seem to think thats a benefit. Its only a benefit to get you in the ballpark and to get started. AFter that, its not of benefit, it may be a hinderance.

For instance, I often use academics as an example(bad one) In reality, there is nothing wrong with them, but this, they make up too many rules, they make too many restrictions. In reality, they stop themselves from allowing the monitors to exsist. Examples are, they grow this speed, so if they actually grow faster, they slow them down??? They produce this much, so if they actually do more they stop them? They live this long, so what happens if they don't. They require this temp, 35.568439F So thats what they give them. They are aboreal, so they get a tree branch, whether they like it or not. They are saxocolis, so they get a fake rock. They hibernate, so they freeze them. They need a wet season, so they rain of them, they need photoperiod, so they put a time clock on a lite bulb. They need UV, so they give them a expensive litebulb that does not work well.

All I have to say is, I could not breed them under those rules. You see, they know too much and have too many rules, way to many rules.

I am glad I don't have those rules. I simply take care of them and enjoy what they do.

Lastly I get the idea folks are insulted at being labelled a newbie. I really do not know why, If you do what you say your going to do, that will quickly disappear. Its a temporary label. And truely theres nothing wrong with it. After all, if you fail, you have a ready made excuse. The real point is, people think reading and what many here call research is knowing. And that suppose not a newbie. Sorry, it doesn't work that way, not with monitors or golf or any thing you actually have to DO. Cheers

Heres the thing, if you have to quote things, then its of no help. As All I doing is trying to tell you something simple in about a thousand different ways, hoping you will pick up on it.

I would imagine if we met at a bar and had a long conversation, and I quote each of your sentences, you would get annoyed. As each sentence is really not worth quoting. Its when they are put together that it counts. But I guess that is what your missing in the first place.

You know I wish you well and success. Cheers