Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello All,

Just kinda running things through in my mind last night at work. Supposing a person is producing large numbers of Ball pythons. It is not unforseeable for a hatchling albino Ball to be alive in 2067. Let alone the aldabran tortoises!

Relative to total production annually and compounding exponentially to a point. Where does that leave thousands of Ball pythons in 2067. I mean how many animals can your kids stand to inherit.

There is a strong point to conservation, BUT, look how many times it is mentioned not to release captive animals back into the wild. Do not get me wrong I assure you that we will see the day that the Ball python will be endangered. VERY SAD! There is no place in the wild for a pied ball, Ivory, super mojave, platy etc.

We are not looking at cats and dogs that are terminal at 10-20 years. God Willing these babies will be slithering around in cages long after we the "breeders" are dead!!

Who really suffers once a market saturation point is reached???

Call me a pessimist if you will, I prefer realist.

On the UP-ish side there will come a day when the ZOOs will come knocking on our doors for animals!!

So Before you envision huge dollar signs consider the consequences to the animals!!

God Bless, Lee Van Hyfte

really....if it gets that overcrowded ..BBQ sauce and some rednecks by the grill can pretty much take care of all the world's critters.......any of 'em.......

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real side........they CAN live 54 years........they DO die alot younger than that alot of times.........I've had 6 year old fat girls just roll over and die..female troubles.......females of all species can be a pain ...,,,.I mean can die young.....

.......there will always be someone to buy them........

......there will always be someone who buys them and has no clue and kills them......

.......

......my kid wants me to sell all the "antique junk" actually so she doesn't have to deal with it when we die

........wife was told who to call for the snakes when I croak out.....
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Did you see the Survivorman show on The Science Channel where he ate the rattle snake in the Georgian swamp? It looked pretty tasty.....

I'd give one a try. Maybe marinated with olive oil and rosemary, then grill over some hardwood charcoal. Yummy.

Hello,

So you intend to eat your pets when they no longer serve other purposes HUH?

NO you will likely sell them to a bargain hunter and they will be mistreated. Die Slow and painfully.

And if your BP's are dieing at 6 years I WOULD SERIOUSLY look in the mirror and see what you are doing wrong. THAT IS NOT a normal response to healthy and proper husbandry.

THINK BEFORE YOU ACT!!

A quote I read recently on the KS forums.
"it is better to keep quiet and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove them right"

God Bless, Lee Van Hyfte

Not that it's my place....

Lighten up I'm sure he was joking... mostly.

And I completely disagree. Anyone who has a large number of any animals will lose some to something beyond their control at some point regardless of how they are kept. That is the down side to dealing with live animals of any type.

Ever think that the six year old female was messed up from birth? Was provided a great environment to live in and was able to live six years where as maybe somewhere else that female may have been provided with less care and only lived a few years? With the conditions a lot of imports are housed in as babies before they even get to the breeders is a whole new subject.

Just a point to think about before you miss a joke and turn a thread into an attack on someone you don't even know. I don't know Jyhoe either but it was pretty obvious from his post that we all need to lighten up a bit and get over it.

BTW, I come from rednecks. I resent that comment and would like an apology lol.

brandon
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Morph Evolutions
www.morphevolutions.com

sorry you are a redneck.......nuttin you can do about it now.......LOL.....well....cut the mullet and hide the broken down trucks in the BACK yard next time not out front driveway................

.........sorry.......I am still so bored........trout fished in the COLD this morning...in REAL redneck country .......got limit and alot more released...got a nice 17 inch fatty rainbow.......was trying for the 24???incher in there.......still alot left....and we banged them ysterday and today.......

anyways.......I am not a redneck but I am trying man......eating racoon soup helps but not as much as you think.......LOL

all in fun .......all in fun.......

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Is the fishing season open in PA?

Im ready to hit the long island sound for some early Stripers soon here in CT.

This was a 32" one I caught early last year. I usually throw em bck, but I ws hving Memorial Day picnic. I grilled her whole in a foil pouch with lemon, onion, olive oil and a little cayanne pepper. Delicious!

I'm so jealous...There's nowhere good to fish around here. All the lakes are seeded, which isn't any fun at all.

Can't wait to head up to michigan this summer and go fishing for some bass!

~jenny
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"The python has, and I fib no fibs,
318 pairs of ribs.
In stating this I place reliance
On a seance with one who died for science
This figure is sworn to and attested,
He counted them while being digested."
~Ogden Nash

jenny.thegreenes.org

Yes'm the bass here are yummy, and fun ta catch I just wish the weather would straighten out.

Quig
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

what a beauty, I used to fish yearly with my dad before he died, we'd go to Lake Marion in Santee Cooper S.C. for a few days a year. We always had alot of fun and always caught plenty. But alas my dads guide died, we went fishing that year with a friend of his guides and had a good time, but didn't catch nearly as much. I tell ya though, I have caught many large blue cats, but that one little five pound striper I caught fought like a thirty pound cat, I was all disappointed he was little but so glad to finally get to see him lol. Thanks for sparking a memory!

Santee Cooper.........big blue cats.......aaaaaaaaaah......you are making me jealous now.......I love cats and walleye fishin........rock are fun too when they are around........

good luck.....and fish alot.........

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due to the warming trend of the world they opened trout 3 weeks early in 18 counties to give us more time to fish before it gets hot and is not good for stocking trout or fishing for them.....
(if the LLBean boys would just take the neoprene waders off they wouldn't be so hot later on in the summer)LOL....Duh pretty boys...

.........I have waders and vest and all the "stuff"...I wore hip boots a camo jacket and carry 2 creels...one for stuff and one for fish.....we got our limits double and the 17 incher to boot.....LLBean boys were just catching what was slamming the spinners.......9 1/2 inch browny's stocked by Trout Unlimited.....(Later they stock the 12 inch brookies.....and I will be on vacation that week....hahahaha)...

......stripers in foil.lemon...man...I need breakfast now.........

good luck........

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I love to fish, Im a big cat fisherman down on the Ohio river is where I spend most of my summer nights and some of the colder nights. These were some shovelhead




These were all on one night last summer and these were this past winter blue cats


Also you have to remember Im about 6'7" 325 lbs so they look a bit smaller to me than someone else. Thanks for looking
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Damian Macioce
www.strongholdreptiles.com

.......Hi.......take deep breathes........

LOL

........go hug another tree ???........

........I never ate a snake yet........and yes I have skinned out a 6 foot jungle carpet....wasn't too keen on eating it....not sure how well it chilled at the show......

......anyways.....I have had one ( 1 ) female huge ball die at age 6 about...she was a '98 born here in PA baby.......I still have her sisters and her brothers were given away this past summer and her mother is at Harford Reptile Breeding Center..(Pythons.com) in Md.......she is maybe 15 years old.??.......I have females that are of unknown age......could be 30 or more??......who knows.........I grow them big and fast usually and they are fine........ok?......

.never ate a dog yet either.........

bobcats soaked in quick cure and smoked do taste like ham.......

smoked turtle is just wierd.......

never ate a bug.......well......maybe in hot dogs???.,

so....how you feel now?..still breathing well?...........slow and easy........

..........want a worse scenario?......find out how old the average green iguana is when it dies in the US in a cage???........and you know they import way too many of them......

.......have fun
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I told my rents to sell their antiques too, but now I want half of them, lol.

I'm 34. If I ever get some baby snakes, they can all live with me till I die, lmao. My little kids love them, so I am leaving them to my kids in our will, along with my tortoises.

You kill me man. Gotta love family.
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Morph Evolutions
www.morphevolutions.com

I don't think the average ball python will live 60 years. From what I remember, they tend to average more along the lines of 20 years. As for a huge glut of ball pythons in the pet trade in 60 years, well, I don't think that will happen. For one, Humans breed faster than ball pythons with a much higher rate of survival LOL. Not talking individual people to an individual snake though, but putting together all the ball python breeders in the world now to all the human breeders in the world now...there will still be much more baby humans in 60 years than all the eggs a ball python can produce yearly among all those breeders in 60 years LOL. Then again I could be wrong, I really do not want to figure it out exactly.

However, compared to how many couples in the world (and women who have babies out of wedlock for whatever reason) who have a single child in one year, I am sure it will be more than how many ball python babies are produced in one year by all captive breeders in the world. I just don't think there are a million female ball pythons in captivity breeding/laying a clutch in this year, to match the number of new born humans around the world this year.

Thus, as the human population grows, the portion of reptile enthusiests will also increase. Of course a good portion of ball pythons will die due to neglect or improper care, will be dumped off in a swamp by irresponsible pet owners (who probably dump unwanted kittens/puppies the same way), or killed by careless wild caught mass exporters etc. No genetic morph (well most of them anyway) will be able to survive if introduced back into the wild (though with ball pythons, all the mojave, pastels, fireballs, yellow bellies etc should do fine...the albinos, pieds, ivories etc won't due to the bright white/off white coloration destroying their natural camouflage.

In the long run, there will always be responsible reptile owners out there, even in 60 years (and most likely much more of them due to human population growth and increase awareness of what wonderful pets snakes make) those of us who pass on our reptilian 'assets' to children/friends/family, if they find they don't want to care for them, it won't be hard to find them good homes elsewhere.

Corn snakes have been in the pet trade for nearly 50 years now anyway and they are still going strong.

Hello,

You are also assuming that we can convince humanity that they have a place in society at all.

Look at all the new laws on the floors ie: TX, NC, IA. The NY law that passed a few years back. I have seen multiple attempts to ban all pets! except cats and dogs. (which can do far more damage and carry more diseases)

Wait until PETA gets its way.

The AVERAGE CBB Ball will easily live more than 20 years. Especially, if they are not PUSHED too hard to breed and maintained in an appropriate way.

The fact is there are thousands being produced annually. Look at some of the bigger breeders and birthing records. Just one produced 450 cbb babies let alone all of the imported CH youngens.

True the bulk will die due to improper husbandry. SAD. Fortunately, most will never breed, and not live long enough to do so. But what does that say about "OUR" ability to provide for what we own.

Oh and a single ball female if not PUSHED will produce 8 young every 3rd year. STILL multiple X's that of human production. one breeder 450 BP's another breeder 450 yet another 450. You get the picture.

We could also reflect on the RETICS and BURMS produced which in time will receive a fate worse than a simple death. The iowa law if passed will require the euthanasia of all grnadfathered animals, rather than allowing a simple transfer between herpers.

MAYBE just maybe we will breach the FEAR barrier, educate enough people.

OH and even albino corns were an expensive rarity in 1984 and they have an life expectancy of about 10-15 years. MUCH less than a BP.

JMTCW. God Bless, Lee

Nice post LdyPayne, I completely agree. I also think that we should be more concerned with our current problems...we have millions of dogs and cats that are left homeless every year! They breed much quicker than any reptile, and they are certainly kept by more people. Shelters are overwhelmed, and yet there are still many backyard breeders and puppy mills supplying babies to people who for the most part are impulse buyers.
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Thanks,
Amy
www.myboids.4t.com
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1.14 Normal ball pythons
1.0 Pastel ball pythons
0.0.1 Sinaloan Milk Snake
0.0.1 Plains Garter
0.1 Normal Kenyan Sand Boa
2.0 Anery Kenyan Sand Boa
1.0 Mid-Baja Rosy Boa
0.1 Leucistic Texas Rat
1.2 Dumeril's Boa
1.2 BCI
That's Just The Snakes!

Just like all the other unwanted animals that get produced - over time the snakes will end up with collectors or in shelters and rescues or just turned over and euthanized by local animal control.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

Hi tosha,

I do appreciate the fact that you have an ethics portion on your site.

I wrote this merely to get people to think before they act. Provide food for thought.

A lot of people are breeding and NOT thinking about anything more than $$$$ signs in their heads. NOTHING NEW THERE!!

Even BP's have a right to life, happy, and healthy. They are not EASY to breed which is a plus for them.

If you really want to think a bit, consider tortoise production!! 100 year old healthy aldabrans etc.

EDUCATE EDUCATE EDUCATE!

God Bless, Lee

>>I wrote this merely to get people to think before they act. Provide food for thought.

You're preaching to the choir. Have you seen the folks here jump on people who aren't taking proper care of their animals?

>>A lot of people are breeding and NOT thinking about anything more than $$$$ signs in their heads. NOTHING NEW THERE!!

EXACTLY. Look at iguanas, chihuahuas, cats, lizards, babies... You gonna go preach to those people to? You really should, just to make it fair, you know.

You're making a mountain out of a molehill. Go to your local shelter and take a look at how many adoptable dogs are sitting around out there. DOGS. Who doesn't like dogs? Or puppies? Nazis, that's who.
I digress.

Fact is, there are irresponsible breeders and sellers in any animal breeding industry. Like the dogs I just mentioned. At least ball pythons are (relatively) easy to care for and pretty laid back - of all the reptiles being mass produced, they're at least easy to find homes for. Iguanas? Compared to an adult ball python, an adult iguana is an a$$hole. How many iguanas do you know over the age of 5? Hm? I've only met one and he hates everybody and when he looks at you, you just know he's plotting ways to whack you in the face with his tail. That's how most iguanas end up being, because people don't spend the time to socialize and tame them.
And they're bred and imported in even greater numbers than ball pythons! Obviously they are in much greater moral peril than we lowly ball python folks. Go lecture the iguana people. It'll accomplish about as much as lecturing us will.

~jenny
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"The python has, and I fib no fibs,
318 pairs of ribs.
In stating this I place reliance
On a seance with one who died for science
This figure is sworn to and attested,
He counted them while being digested."
~Ogden Nash

jenny.thegreenes.org

Yada yada....yada

They are my snakes and I will make boots out of them if I want to. Go hug a tree.

Tosha,

It's great to see your optimistic side returning again lol
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Morph Evolutions
www.morphevolutions.com