Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Some feel that pure conjuncta or nitida are difficult to find.

Photos posted here recently seem to imply that pure nitidas have an unbroken stripe (not "dirty", golden brown) the length of the body, with no side pattern. Other photos labeled as nitida show broken stripe, with some side marks in places.

My juvenile has a broken stripe for his upper third, and some speckles of grayish near the bottom sides. For two-thirds of his rear length, his stripe is mostly solid, and sides are black. He more closely resembles a juvenile nigrita with a nitida stripe, than a conjuncita hybrid.

I've also heard one dealer describe conjunctas as being black with brown bands, like the nitida brown stripe. (Is golden brown pattern the Baja hallmark?) Others say that they are crisp black & white. If so, how does that differ from Mojave specimens? What is going on? Is there that much disagreement, or confusion, over these subspecies?

Based on traits I've seen, especially the head & snout shape, and the stripe, I suspect that nitidas are the western-most, now isolated pocket of nigritas. They were separated by tectonic plate shifting that created the peninsula? Nitidas resemble nigritas much more, yet they are lumped as a subspecies of Cal Kings. I opt for L. getula nitida subspecies status.

My big question is this:

How common are pure, unbroken lines in isolated cape specimens considered pure nitidas, versus aberrant patterns?

Cal Kings, and Kings in general, can be very aberrant as we've all seen. Maybe pure stripes with no side patterns is like being six feet tall with blue eyes. Nice to have, but exceptions are common in the population?

Based on traits I've seen, especially the head & snout shape, and the stripe, I suspect that nitidas are the western-most, now isolated pocket of nigritas. They were separated by tectonic plate shifting that created the peninsula? Nitidas resemble nigritas much more, yet they are lumped as a subspecies of Cal Kings. I opt for L. getula nitida subspecies status.

They aren't lumped as a ssp. of calking, because Cal Kings are a ssp themselves and therefore don't have subspecies.

If your biogeographic hypothesis is correct, then nitida is simply a population of nigrita that is getting genetically swamped by calkings from the north.

Think about it this way. Assume the isolation in the cape and subsequent swamping from the north is correct - if calkings rom the north had never reached the cape and the snakes down there were just nigrita, would you propose this population of indistinguishable nigrita be split off as a separate ssp.? Certainly not.
Then why does the addition of genetic material from another ssp. make them something different?

Where does the gold stripe come from? The same place the yellow stripe comes from in coastal cal kings.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

Let's examine the subtle evidence:

1. Cardon cacti are found only in 2 places, Baja cape and one location on the adjacent mainland.

2. Pure black Kingsnakes are usually (excluding rare morphs) found in only two places: Baja cape and adjacent Sonoran mainland.

3. Baja Kings have an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SNOUT & HEAD. Looks more like a narrow cylinder, not like a cobra-like Cal King snout looking much more fierce and less wedge-like.

I speculate that the once-mainland population was separated by techtonic plate movement when the Baja peninsula separated.

Nitidas & nigritas look much more alike than nitidas and californiaes. I know; I have each just a few feet away from me right now.

>>I've also heard one dealer describe conjunctas as being black with brown bands, like the nitida brown stripe. (Is golden brown pattern the Baja hallmark?) Others say that they are crisp black & white. If so, how does that differ from Mojave specimens? What is going on? Is there that much disagreement, or confusion, over these subspecies?
>>

At one time conjuncta and yumensis were considered the same ssp. (conjuncta). Blanchard seperated them as differing ssp. in 1919 based on very minor differences. This is the opening statement from Blanchard's original discription of yumensis........

"In scalation, proportions, and pattern, essentially like L.g.boylii (typical banded Cali King), from which it differs in that the scales of the light areas are shaded basally with brown, thus giving a spotted appearance to the light annuli."

Differences he notes (besides the ranges)between yumenisis and conjuncta are as minimal as how much white was visible on the prefrontals, and how much black was on the frontal plate. The biggest difference is the infrababials, with conjuncta usually having 10, and yumensis having 9. But, this can be attributed to variation rather than a population trait. (present L.g.califoriae variation is 8-11) He doesn't say anything about either yumenisis or conjuncta having light brown bands.

>>How common are pure, unbroken lines in isolated cape specimens considered pure nitidas, versus aberrant patterns?
>>

I don't have anything to verify it, but I'd THINK that a perfect stripe from head to tail, would be along the same lines of finding a perfect striped Cali King. Most seem to have broken stripes (at least near the tail) with a few having the perfect stripe.

>>Cal Kings, and Kings in general, can be very aberrant as we've all seen. Maybe pure stripes with no side patterns is like being six feet tall with blue eyes. Nice to have, but exceptions are common in the population?

I think I'd agree with that. There's always exceptions in any population. Some being more appealing to us, but irrelevant in the population as a whole.

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Ace

a clean, possibly broken brown stripe down the back and no side pattern at all. the black seems to vary, from very black to dark brown, depending on the bloodline. as i stated, some lines have thin side striping between the side and the belly - so far only females of the Lemke line show this trait.
i've never seen or heard of any aberrant nitida..... i've heard of integrates (conjuncta / nitida) that show aberrant patterns.

pure conjuncta and BLACK and WHITE - not brown and white or blue and orange for that matter.

the ones that i've seen do not have the clean consistent patterning like the desert Cal's but have thick black bands with the white bing very thin and jagged.

byron.d

Conjuncta are also sometimes melanistic just like nitida. There is a picture of a melanistic conjuncta in Markel's Kingsnakes and Milksnakes book (the big red one). That is why I think it is just an iheritable melanistic gene going on there. I would be very suprised if there were not occasionally black and white stripers, black and white abberrants and melanistic abberants in the wild in the wild side by side with the know phases of melanistic stripers, black and white bandeds and melanistic bandeds.
Consider that this locality probably has not been very collected and our captive populations probably represent a narrow scope of what is really there. In San Diego where stripers, bandeds and abberrants occur somme areas are mainly banded and some areas are mainly stripers, or at least about 60% stripers. In all areas abberrants seem to be uncommon (less than 10%) so I don't think it's hard to believe with only the small amount of collecting that has occured in Baja we just have not seen everything.
Are you familiar with the Davis/Mendota and Los Angeles county melanistics? I think the nitida/conjuncta are just like those, simply a phase of Cal King.

My knowledge is pretty limited on the Baja stuff... I do think I know more about the nitida phase than I do about the conjuncta phase. All of which I learned from a couple of guys who have a vested interest in this locale.
All of the conjuncta that I've seen in person and in photographs - which in hindsight havent been all that many..... were all stark black and white with little or no variation in pattering. I very much agree with you on what could, and probably is out there considering how little has been collected.

I'm familiar with the melanistic Cal's from Nor. Cal. - I have groups of both Davis and Mendota animals. I know that some people dont consider them two locales any longer, but I still do.
I've seen photos of a few melanistic Cal's from L A county and to me, a couple of them look very much like the Davis / Mendota animals.... The three grease phase Cal's from the Long Beach / Signal Hill area that I've seen were all melanistic banded Cal's and didn't have the wild aberrant patterns of the others from L A county.

In your experience, have the melanistic kings from Los Angeles co. been more aberrants or banded??

I also agree that it's a simple recessive gene at work here making it hit or miss in the wild population.

Thanks Aaron.

byron.d

Baja Kings have an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SNOUT & HEAD. Looks more like a narrow cylinder, not like a cobra-like Cal King snout looking much more fierce and less wedge-like.

Everything I see, scalation & unique color & pattern, justify separate subspecies.

(There are more differences between Cal Kings & nitidas than there is between Fox Sparrows & English Sparrows, yet they are separate species. Taxonomy is not an exact science, and its "leaders" routinely change their minds about every 10-20 years.)

just playing...

I dont know what's going on in San Diego with the Cal Kings there!!! You totally pegged it with your breakdown, and how you have stripes and bandeds side by side yet aberrants are so very hard to find..
That always tripped me out.

I personally love the banded Kings from the Escondido / Elfin forest area of SD county.

byron.d

Baja Kings have an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SNOUT & HEAD. Looks more like a narrow cylinder, not like a cobra-like Cal King snout looking much more fierce and less wedge-like.

Everything I see, scalation & unique color & pattern, justify separate subspecies.

(There are more differences between Cal Kings & nitidas than there is between Fox Sparrows & English Sparrows, yet they are separate species. Taxonomy is not an exact science, and its "leaders" routinely change their minds about every 10-20 years.)

My male is NOT of Lemke bloodline. He has a faint, white belly stripe - mostly on his front 1/3rd area, and mostly on left side.

I suspect that it will fade with age. The faint belly stripe may actually be a secondary trait of nitidas.