Reptile & Amphibian Forums

When Tony wrote that value is arbitrarily assigned to any new morph he wrote exactly what I wanted to say, but didn't.

These new morphs are automatically assigned a value of $500 or whatever and the seller acts like he has just struck oil in his backyard, like the Beverly Hillbillies.

Concerning making money, it all comes down to economics, doesn't it? If everyone is selling Cal Kings then you either have to have something different (and usually it isn't, we are just told it is some "new and great morph - The next big thing!" - reminds me a lot of "The Emporer's New Clothes" or you have to lower your price.

Any of you selling these snakes in volume ought to do a search on the following: "elastic demand curve". This is exactly what happens with each of these snake varieties as the market is saturated with them and people want to move these revenue drains because they hurt cash flow with their unquenchable apetites.

The best way to make money on these snakes with neat color genes is to produce infertile ones. Maybe we could find a piece of uranium and rub the snake on it or put them in a basement that is a known source of radon so thier reproductive organs could be fried... Just a suggestion...

Best regards,
Peter Jolles

Supply and demand dictates price, NOT you and NOT me. If I sell all of my snakes too quickly, then maybe I had them underpriced; if it takes me a year to sell all of my offspring, then I did pretty good on the pricing (for my benefit). I don't produce a lot of snakes (under 500); I have a regular job. I happen to like the different morphs and obviously my customers do to. Remember you are just one person with an opinion which DOES NOT MAKE you special BTW. Some people like the new morphs, actually quite a few and the cal king industry is untapped as the mixing of morphs is in its infancy.

It is simple supply and demand as the upside pyramid grows, nothing new there.

Kerby...

HAH!
That's a good one!
You can sell your snake now for $25 or you can "hold out" and get $50 for it in a year! heh heh heh.
So you take care of it, feed it, house it, yada yada for an extra $25 for a year. $0.48 per week in appreciable value. heh heh heh.

unless you are just a troll and then I will ignore you. I raise snakes for lots of reason. Down on the list is to make a few bucks. There are very few breeders that do this full-time. With the snakes that I breed I wholesale most of my corn snakes to a wholesaler in Phoenix. I keep most of my cal kings and sell them throughout the year. There is no need to sell them all by December for example as there won't be any new snakes until around June the next year for the most part. There is a demand for snakes from January through June, and then there are those people that ask for yearlings. So do I have to take care of those snakes during that time, sure do, but I raise my own rodents and there isn't a cost associated with feeding those because I raise enough rodents (approx 2,000 rats/mice a month) that I sell the excess and just selling the rodents pays for all their bedding and food plus I make a few bucks off the rodents. So feeding my snakes until they are sold IS zero. I don't keep a cal king for 6 months just to sell it for $20, but I do keep cal kings for 6 months to sell them for $200-300. But then again most of those are pre-sold, ya know simple supply and demand.

So you don't like people who breed cal kings and have posted nothing but negative statements. That's fine. Choices. You chose to come to the Kingsnake Forum and tell everyone how you don't like the morphs and you are outnumbered by the thousands, so what?......

Kerby...

Why are you getting so defensive? I did not ask for your business plan.

You can do what you want - it's really none of my business and I don't care. This whole rant by me has been in response to the ridiculous marketing efforts by some who have some morph of this-that-or the other. They are sold as some "gotta have" snake like a Cabbage Patch Kid, remember them?

As for me, I've bred a bunch of different things - snakes, gecko's, true chameleons. Normally I just give away the offspring. Since I view this as a hobby and not a money making venture (like you "$Ching-Ching$"!) I have no problem doing that.
Most of my satisfaction comes from relieving the pressure on wild populations.

I don't keep 350 snakes, like some people, and therefore I don't have to devise strategies to pay for all of the animals.

Later,
Peter

Look, Peter I didn't want to get involved but I think you should keep your opinions to yourself.Every post you've made besides like 2 were whining and complaining.Not just on the topic of designer morphs which the majority of people on kingsnake.com keep and breed.You call someone a "retard" blatantly because he made a choice to get a tattoo, which was his decision and I'm sure he's happy with what he's done but you call him a "retard".Do everyone a favor and keep your comments to yourself.

Hi Peter,

I'm still not sure you're serious, but if you are, i'd enjoy chatting with you at the daytona expo if you're there. I DO breed rare morphs, i DO consider it a hobby, i DO run it as a business, and i DO think that after we talked, we'd find we're really not so far apart after all in our thinking and that gee, just maybe, your point of view is a little...uhh...more extreme than is wararnted. I'm not out to change your mind, maybe just help you see the situation a little differently. Heck, I'll even bet you a buck that would be the outcome (see how willing i am to put the big bucks where my mouth is?!)

Now, if someone wants to bet ME a buck that after a chat i'll think hybrids are cool beans, that's a bet I would take too...

peace
terry

PS: Here's just one thought to consider, as you're breeding "normals" only, with great pride for reducing demands on collecting in the wild: Isn't it conceivable that anyone who spends $xxx for an albino something, might ALSO thus be deterred (by economics or by interest or both) from buying one or more of the nominative morph of that species, and thus the color variety does as much--or more, if we're talking about affecting people's budgets--to diminish pressures on wild populations, as someone who produces a "normal"? And to carry that thought a little further, if by breeding morphs some of us "convert" others to an enthusiasm for those morphs rather than the wild-caught type, aren't we further diminishing the pressure on wild populations? And...

Nothing intelligent to add to this forum, a newbie who only starts trouble, can't defend his comments through logic LOL, and can only revert to childish name calling as his best defense - YUP A TROLL LOL.

Like I said, unless you have something to say with merit and can refrain from your name calling, then I will invite you to an intelligent conversation. But you have lacked all of that.

Cheers

Kerby...

Nobody had to respond to any of my posts. I did this just to get this stuff off of my chest and to have some fun.

Mission accomplished. Nobody had to get all pissed off but it has been kind of entertaining (especially you Kerby, you little girl).

Sorry, I won't be at Daytona - would love to go though. I will be at MARS, though... I live about 1 hr from Timonium.

By the way, I am not a "newbie" (another name thrown out at me) as I have maintained snakes for 25 of my 31 years.

Kerby - if you are there, I am 31, 6' tall, 220#, short black hair, and a former Marine, so if you want to chat, we can.

Kerby, you are getting far too exercized over all of this. I thought you are in California? Relax dude!

Later,
Peter

**Nobody had to respond to any of my posts. I did this just to get this stuff off of my chest and to have some fun.**

Then why did you post? Yep-a troll.... That's what trolls do.

**Mission accomplished. Nobody had to get all pissed off but it has been kind of entertaining (especially you Kerby, you little girl).**

Yep a troll, and an immature name caller, wow a Marine called me a girl LOL You DON'T HAVE A CLUE bro!

**Kerby - if you are there, I am 31, 6' tall, 220#, short black hair, and a former Marine, so if you want to chat, we can. **

Stat's, so you were ELEVEN when I went to Airborne School! Glad you were a Marine, I was an Infantry Officer, what's the point??? So you are 6' tall, 220#, you still aren't taller than me nor do you out weigh me. Was THAT comment by YOU suppose to add credence to your statements??? Yep, YOU ARE CONFUSED

**Kerby, you are getting far too exercized over all of this. I thought you are in California? Relax dude!**

Not in California, never said I was OR are you making a slam on those that do live in California?, or was that just another "Beverly Hillbilly" comment by you??

You failed us again, yawn...

Kerby...

**Why are you getting so defensive? I did not ask for your business plan.**

Actually you did. You questioned our intent, therefore I drew you a picture. Still confused???? Don't think too long on that one, it wasn't a trick question

**You can do what you want - it's really none of my business and I don't care.**

Then don't let the door hit ya on the way out If you don't care then why???????????

**This whole rant by me has been in response to the ridiculous marketing efforts by some who have some morph of this-that-or the other. They are sold as some "gotta have" snake...**

Then don't play, it's a free country, good-bye!

**As for me, I've bred a bunch of different things - snakes, gecko's, true chameleons. Normally I just give away the offspring.**

That's cool, then you question about our pricing. YOU ARE CONFUSED!! Man you need help

**Since I view this as a hobby and not a money making venture (like you "$Ching-Ching$"!) I have no problem doing that.**

Good, you are in the same boat with MOST OF US, so what's your beef??? I forgot, YOU ARE CONFUSED!

**Most of my satisfaction comes from relieving the pressure on wild populations.**

That was a funny and an ignorant comment that is expected by someone like yourself who hasn't made too many smart comments so far..... MAN WHAT AN IMPACT YOU HAVE MADE! ! !

**I don't keep 350 snakes, like some people, and therefore I don't have to devise strategies to pay for all of the animals.**

Totally false, I would say that 99% of the people who post on this forum DO NOT HAVE 350 snakes that they keep year round.

**Later,
Peter**

Ya, like WAY LATER

If you are going to respond to this, PLEASE put some effort into it!

Kerby...

we've seen these people come and go...maybe the same ones under different screen names, maybe different ones. They come on here and make ridiculous indefensible "points", which are ALWAYS someting negative about someone or something, then disappear after a few arguments when it becomes painfully clear they can't win...they usually end up calling everyone a few choice names, then disappear. It's not worth wasting your breath over, or getting your blood pressure up over.

If I had to guess, I would say that it's some bored kid playing on dad's computer most of the time. Other times it's some wannabe that can't figure out how to breed stuff and is pissed because he can't do it and other people are. Or because he can't afford the morphs that he's whining about, so to make himself feel better about that he attacks the people that have them and breed them. It's a way of validating his own worth by devaluing someone else. If he had either the skill and knowledge to breed, or the money to buy, we'd never hear from him. Forget it...these guys are best just ignored, then they just go away because nobody will play with them.

Old herper, I am not the one who went "negative".

Peter

Kerby...

But I do take my blood-pressure medicine every morning. He's not getting me steamed, I'm enjoying it, but he is a rather boring sport. He hasn't said anything intellegent yet.

Kerby...

Why do you always have to have the last word...

Let it go dude... I am not pissed while fielding trollish insults left and right... why are you?

You need to just read my posts and laugh (I have been ROLLING while writing them). I really wrote these just to stir-it-up.

Kerby ~ relax, go have a beer!

Dude, its ok, Life is too short to get angry over disputes like this (I mean this part).

Peter

Go ahead, you can have the last word LOL

Kerby...

.. Is there another definition????????

Why are you calling me a troll?

A cal king for 200-300! This must be some cal king...as All the shows I have been to, including the one in NY I have never seen a cal king for 200-300 and some were very nice cal kings.
I would like to see a picture of a 200-300 cal king...as this must be some snake.

They are my Albino High Whites with very little to no pattern on them, and yes you are right you probably HAVE NOT seen one in person. More people are getting them now, but I produced one in 2000 and to my knowledge that was the first one.

Kerby...

I have seen pics of the high whites you are talking about. And quite frankly, the more new morphs I see the more I like the normals. Don't get me wrong..I like some morphs but for look wise color and pattern are good things. What I would like to see people breed are nice robust normals with even great temperments and a very strong feeding responce.

Kerby,

Do you have a website? I am interested in some regular chocolate brown and yellow (Coastal phase (?)) California Kingsnakes.

Do you have any of those?

Peter

And I bred my Carlsbad female (brown w/ yellow stripe) to a Mendota male, so going with the Mendota as a recessive gene (at least it is hidden in all the breeding projects except Mendota x Mendota), then I should have 9 baby Carlsbad (brown w/ yellow stripe) in September. It was my last clutch.

Kerby...

Chocolates with banding, I misread your post.

Kerby...

On the other hand, all this morph breeding might be what dictates a certain type of snake to be considered "domesticated" in the eyes of the law, thereby securing our rights to keep and breed them. It may really be the best thing we can do.

I also agree that some morphs are ugly (to me anyway) and yet still command a hefty price in comparison. But I drool over those Cal kings of Kerby's.

I love Morphs and normal colored snakes equally. Sure some people can't understand why a snake is worth more because of a color mutation but let's use Thayeri as an example. Some people sell them for 50 dollars and the babies are viewed as average. Others produce phenomenal neon phases that cost a few hundred. Is someone a fool who wants to spend the few hundred on the neon phases? I think not and many people will agree with me. Why is it any different for a morph? If you have the choice of an ugly dark and muddy Honduran or a stunning Hypo you're saying you want the ugly one? To me that is foolish. There seems to be a trend attacking people for hoping they make some money from their hobby and that is wrong. Morphs are also unavailable in the wild, and thier popularity may just discourage those people still out in the field collecting and selling wild caught animals that are simply not needed in this hobby, there's more than enough captive born animals to go around in most cases. Let's also keep in mind that market prices drop and bottom out pretty fast. I could not have afforded to get into Albino Nelsoni a few years back, and now I got myself a pair of hets[which are beautiful as they are] for 100 bucks. I will still make a little money off them and to me that is a great thing. We all need money, and for me to have a large collection and be able to have it pay for itself as far as feeding them all and the possibility of making a buck really helps me be able to enjoy all my animals all the more, meaning it isn't really costing me much to have all the snakes I ever wanted. Seems there's a bunch of "I am a true herper and cooler than you because I don't buy morphs" types of people popping up lately. We see your point but calm down. We can all like whatever we want. Freedom of choice, it's what makes this country great.