Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am working on a cage for some of the balls we just ordered and wanted to know if its ok to use a polyurethane to stain/seal the wood?

Thanks

I Believe so if you let it air out for a couple of days . But can’t swear to it , I’ve never used it . Thanks David

I am working on a cage for some of the balls we just ordered and wanted to know if its ok to use a polyurethane to stain/seal the wood?

Modern oil-based polyurethanes have had to be modified by companies for VOC compliance and I don't consider these to be suitable to cages. These products can offgas small amounts of solvents for years. I can go into this more if you really want, but the upshot of these products is that they are not recommended for use inside of drawers or cabinets that hold dishes or even socks so I don't believe they should be used in cages. A shame since they offer so much protection for the money.

Single component waterborne polyurethanes can be used but may not be durable enough for the floors of reptile cages. I normally recommend sealing all of the cage interior, including the floor, and then glueing down some sort of more durable and easier to clean plastic floor.

Two component waterborne polyurethanes can also be used but are not something you can just walk in and buy at Home Depot or your local hardware store. They are typically sold at flooring outlets and only in bulk so unless you have a lot cages to seal (or hardwood floors for that matter) this is probably not a good choice.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Malaysian locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

"Single component waterborne polyurethanes can be used but may not be durable enough for the floors of reptile cages. I normally recommend sealing all of the cage interior, including the floor, and then glueing down some sort of more durable and easier to clean plastic floor. "

So I could use this type of polyurethane to seal everything and put say a sheet of custom cut plexi for the floor and that would be safe right? Ill have to go and see what kind of poly it was that I was looking at at the store Im pretty sure it was NOT oil based because I figured that wasnt safe but I dont remember exactly what it was called.

The cage has a wooden frame ceiling and floor, plexiglass sides and doors , and metal screen back.

Thanks for the help guys
Tragic

So I could use this type of polyurethane to seal everything and put say a sheet of custom cut plexi for the floor and that would be safe right?

I would consider it safe. Plexiglass would not be my first choice for this application, as it tends to warp when exposed to humidity and temperature differentials. One poplar floor liner is Sintra or other types of expanded PVC sign boards. This is what Boaphile cages are made of. You can often get scrap pieces from sign shops. I have also use scrap vinyl flooring.

Ill have to go and see what kind of poly it was that I was looking at at the store Im pretty sure it was NOT oil based...

Oil based polys are still common. The two most common waterborne urethanes are Minwax Polycrylic and Varathane Diamond. Varathane Diamond has three different versions. Depending on what type of wood you used for the frame will determine which you should use to seal it.

Did you use solid wood or plywood? If solid wood, what type?
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Malaysian locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

2x2s for the frame and plywood(1/4" I think) for the ceiling and floors. The cage will be using radiant heat panels with a helix thermo instead of heating pads and fluorescent lights.

I have been buying my custom cut plexi from
http://www.estreetplastics.com/Plexiglass_Sheets_Clear_s/21.htm
and can get thicker sheets if that will make a difference.

An acrylic floor can still warp from having a RHP radiate down on it from above. I also don't like the way acrylic hazes and scratches over time, making it harder to clean. Another issue is that silicone does not adhere to it well and you'll want to make sure that the seal between the plexiglass and walls is tight.

2x2's will require a more flexible sealant so I would recommend the Varathane Diamond Spar Urethane. Unfortunately it's less water resistant than the other Diamond Urethanes but it is flexible enough for the 2x2's that will expand and contract over time. If the 2x2's are well aged and dried out then I'd use the Diamond Floor finish.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Malaysian locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

An acrylic floor can still warp from having a RHP radiate down on it from above. I also don't like the way acrylic hazes and scratches over time, making it harder to clean. Another issue is that silicone does not adhere to it well and you'll want to make sure that the seal between the plexiglass and walls is tight.

2x2's will require a more flexible sealant so I would recommend the Varathane Diamond Spar Urethane. Unfortunately it's less water resistant than the other Diamond Urethanes but it is flexible enough for the 2x2's that will expand and contract over time. If the 2x2's are well aged and dried out then I'd use the Diamond Floor finish.

Ah ok cool thanks for the info, very much appreciated.

The frame of the cage is well aged, it was part of an old cage I had been storing, the only new wood is the plywood and the 2x2s under the plywood. Are you speaking from experience with those brands or do they say something on the can that specify the qualities you pointed out? Does silicone bond to the other materials you mentioned?

Thanks again
Tragic

Are you speaking from experience with those brands or do they say something on the can that specify the qualities you pointed out? Does silicone bond to the other materials you mentioned?

I have not used Diamond urethane but sort of try to keep up on the commercially available finishes. I do have experience with Minwax Polycrylic and have heard that the Varathane Diamond brand generally outperforms it. I like the Varathane product because it comes in three levels of flexibility. Within any general class of finishes there is a tradeoff between water resistance and flexibility. In general you want to use the hardest (i.e. least flexible) finish that can stand up to the natural movement of your substrate. It sounds like the floor finish will be the right level of compromise for you.

Now, keep in mind that I only recommend the Varathane Diamond products because they are widely available at the places where people tend to look first. There are certainly more durable single component waterborne urethanes but they would be a bit harder to track down and probably come in larger quantities.

Regardless, none of them are what I call lifetime finishes, even for a ball python. But they are cheap, relatively easy to apply and relatively easy to reapply if the finish should start to break down over time.

Back to the Diamond Varathane, another poster has kept Rainbow Boas in cages sealed with the stuff for over ten years and has not yet resealed them. But all of his wood was cabinet grade plywood which is much more stable than a 2x2, even an aged one. Regardless, I think it will hold up fine to a Ball Python unless you have a specimen that dumps its water bowl frequently.

Now, regarding silicone, I have been able to make a water tight seal to Sintra with it, although I did not have it in use for a long time. I did use silicone to hold down a scrap piece of vinyl flooring in another cage and it has held for years, although I have not tested it for water-tightness.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Malaysian locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

Ok cool, I think that the kind I had looked at was the Diamond Varathane and instead of using plexi Ill look at vinyl flooring

I have built other enclosures before but this is my first one for ball pythons. Ill get some pics when its all finished
Thank you very much for your help
tragic