Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Lots of Parsons just appeared suddenly. I know they are really big, and have neat colors, but why are they so expensive?

I have heard that they are some of the most docile chameleons, but what else? Care sheets anywhere? whats the difference between them and veiled or panthers?

Lots of Parsons just appeared suddenly. I know they are really big, and have neat colors, but why are they so expensive?

Restricted species. Supply and Demand! Don't know of anybody who has captive hatched and raised there own babies. Much still to learn about these alluring creatures.

They have been of great interest to cham keepers for years and people have been willing to pay a lot for them. Their habitat is mostly gone, so they are at risk in the wild (also because of the demand and smuggling) and very hard to get. Madagascar exporting of this and most other cham species was closed for years, as the CITES signatories asked Mada. to demonstrate that the species could tolerate collection for trade before exportation should be continued. Despite this, now there is a small annual quota allowed (please correct me if this is wrong). They are demanding in terms of seasonal cycling, torpor, nutrition, and so large that housing them is a challenge. They just won't do well in the typical cham cage. Setting up breeding pairs and producing young takes a LONG time (rumors that incubation has taken 18 months). Very few breeding successes. Yes, they are beautiful and many are docile (there are exceptions and the exceptions can crush your thumb with a bite), but there are other species almost as large, as docile, and as colorful. I think their body is the largest of any species, but Oustaleti can be longer and the African Melleri is about as big. Their rostrals and casque are more pronounced than panthers'. I met a few in the wild...including a couple of "exceptions". Their feet are HUGE, and can numb your hand when they tighten their grip.

"but there are other species almost as large, as docile, and as colorful"

Which? just curious

Calumma oshaughnesi (spelling? bleh)
Calumma globifer

I suppose also, these more available species:
Furcifer oustaleti
C.trioceros melleri
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WILL HAYWARD,
CANADIAN CHAMELEONS

i know that as a species chameleons lean towards the shy and reclusive end of the spectrum esspecially compaired to things like a bearded dragon. And i know that shyness varies with individuals (Charlie is extreamly docile when compaired to most veiled chameleons i have been told) but in general what are the most docile chameleon species?

I'm not sure I would characterize any species as "docile". Tolerant would be a better word. There are tolerant individuals of course, but that is not very predictable. Tolerant chams may simply be less likely to bluff or threaten someone who is bothering them. Doesn't mean they are less stressed by handling. I have heard that jackson's are more docile, but the jax I've had were also shy and easily stressed by too much attention. I have had gentle melleri who seemed pretty tolerant and others who would bite as soon as look at you. The "docile" Parsoni I've met were partially reacting to gentle and brief handling. If I had pestered them very long I bet their other side would have shown itself! Several female Parsoni were pretty nasty and pissy. But, almost all my chams have been wc, rescued, adopted, from clueless keepers.

Just to reply regarding C. parsonii's export status. There is NO quota for parsonii. They have been restricted for export from Madagascar by the Convention on International Trade of Endangered Species (CITES) since 1995. Unfortunately, because of their dollar value, this species is being smuggled into the US and Europe.

Well said Carlton!
It is not a rumor however about the 18 month plus incubation time.
Back in '96 I hatched out two baby parsonii parsonii, orange eye/white lipped variety. The incubation was almost 19 months and that included two diapauses where I lowered the temp for two months each year during the Winter months. Unfortunately, the two babies only lived a few hours and the remaining 40 eggs all had full term embryos that failed to hatch and died. I was devasted and left the hobby shortly thereafter but have secretly regretted it ever since.
After about a 10 year hiatus, I have been bitten by the chameleon bug again and am actively looking for another pair, perhaps trio, of these marvelous chameleons again for another attempt at propagation.
I too hope that some day CITIES will allow, better yet, encourage the limited farm breeding/hatching of this species, so that we can once again obtain healthy and legal specimens.
The current US prices make them too difficult to obtain. I don't think that one needs to have the financial backing to fork out $2000 to $3000 for a single specimen in order to be a good and devoted hobbyist for this species. I agree that the price should never be 'cheap', like it was back in the early 90's, but certainly within reach of the average income, but very devoted, hobbyists. In my very humble opinion, there is no more impressive a chameleon as a big male parsonii. This species size, gentle and docile nature, and of course great coloration make them a truly wonderful species second to none. It is a privilege to care for them.
Just look at this beauty below. This is not my parsonii (wish it were ). I hope that Garret doesn't mind me sharing this pic with you all, but this cham clearly demonstrates just how impressive these guys can be with devoted and diligent care!

I met a couple of females who were anything but docile! Downright nasty, lunging at us, hissing and roaring. I think I prefer things with horns like bifidus, deremensis, and the giant fischeri. My favorite smaller species is wilsoni.

Losing a clutch of 40 after so much care and hope would be heartbreaking!

Just curious, wilsoni? Is this a newly identified species?

Not that I know of. Maybe I misspelled the name. I've seen the species mentioned in the older cham books. It is a smaller species with split rostrals similar to the African B. fischeri group. We saw one on our Madagascar trip in 1999 east of the mountains. Beautiful almost metallic green!

OH! Will's chameleons! They are cool looking and apparently quite long lived as I had a friend with a male up to 7 years after she bought it as an adult import in '94-95.

http://www.adcham.com/html/taxonomy/species/fwillsii .html

It's been a long time since I owed my first pair of Parsoni, I was one of the lucky ones to have been able to buy wild caught babies back when the whole salers had them for $50.00 each. I purchased my first pair in 1994 for $100.00 plus shipping along with panthers and some oustalet's. Those baby Parsoni were awesome to behold. I always knew Parson's would be a challenge and I did well with them for the first 4 months but eventually lack of experience with this species and inter species minglling would be my down fall with my Parson's. I went into the military shortly after I sold one of the babies and I have never seen that little male again. Seeing fresh blood come in is somthing that I have waited for for years unfortunatley I was unable to get one of the little guys before they were sod out. I have heard that there has been some success with captive breeding this species and I hope that in the coming years the US and Madagascar can come up with somthing to allow them back into the country. I would like to get a pair again some day no matter what the price.

I hope that in the coming years the US and Madagascar can come up with somthing to allow them back into the country.

The decision has absolutely nothing to do with the US or Madagascar governments other than that they are signatories to CITES.